"Peter Drier" wrote in message
om...
Here is some additional information regarding my original message and
the questions that it has brought up:

* The 3000 estimate, was actually a quote. My mistake when writing the
post.

Quotes can go down, but not more than 2% up...or not..depending on the local
laws in your area..

* I've cross posted this to alt.home.repair, and any future questions
not in this thread will go there.

Now..THATS gonna help...

sarcasm mode off...


* I'm trying to determine the parts/labor breakdown for reasons
described below
* I realize there are going to be quotes that are too low($1200), and
too high($5000). My goal here is to improve my gut feeling on the
range so I can find and pay the right price for the job to be done
right.

In other words, you want to know what it costs the contractor...

* It's Olympian on York's website, I'll ask about Lattitude, and make
sure that's specified in the quote.

I told you how to tell...Lattitude is dark platnium, and Olympian is desert
tan...it really wont make a damn, since all they changed was the name, and
the color...its identical....all you will get if its dark, is a brand
spankin new right off the line unit..


* 131 lbs up 4 flights of stairs should NOT be that hard.

Oh..**** you. Yea..I said it...**** you, and anyone that wants to tell me
that. Foul mouth? Tough ****. I had a guy today tell me that getting his new
12 SEER unit installed would be a piece of cake...suuuuuure.....
It was...if you include the fact that some ****tard spliced the thermostat
wires to the point on the original unit that we just gave the hell up, and
pulled a new wire..
Easy? Sure...took almost 2 hours for 30 feet of wire...real damn easy..
Then, there was the getting the new unit, in where an old Ruud
went...oh...it was SOOOOO simple....
If I find the son of a bitch that originally installed the Ruud, I will
break his fingers.....slowly..



If that's
the reason behind a 500$+ jump in the quote, I'll hire some movers who
will carry it up for $20 and a case of beer each.

You would be finding a new contractor as well....since the moment you touch
it, its yours..I mean...you pay me now, minus labor, and kiss my ass, since
until WE install the unit, and declare it sound, if anyone else moves it, I
void the warranty, and yes...I can indeed do that..one phone call, and you
own a boat anchor..


It weighs much less
than some of the furniture I have,

It sure does. It sure as hell does. And you know what? If I had to put my
refrigerator on the roof 4 flights up, I would hire a crane for it too....if
I had to move my computer desk onto a roof, I would hire a crane for that
too..
There is a RIGHT way, that solves any issues that you might get, like your
crackhead friends slipping and dropping a unit that is not covered for
damage in ANY way shape or form from York, unless its damaged when it gets
to the warehouse, and since they check them...well.....taking one back with
a crushed coil wont fly.


and that wasn't a problem.

Goodie. You didnt move your furniture to the freaking roof....


* Folks that are super secretive ("None of your ****ing business") on
the rough wholesale/retail price of the equipment they're installing
don't give me a good vibe.

Let me put it another way....
Tough ****ing ****.
Would you feel better if I told you that I can buy the unit for $1, and its
gonna cost you $2999.00 to install it?
Would you feel better if I told you that I can buy the unit for $2999.00 and
its gonna cost you $1 to install it?

Would you feel even better if I did this:

Unit: $1999.00
Labor: free
Insurance: $200.00
Gas: $10
Advertising: $200
Taxes: $150
Licence: $75
Liability Insurance: $25
Workers Comp: $45
Tires, and oil for truck: $10
Insurance for vehicle: $10
Tools to install job, wear and tear: $10
Misc parts needed to install unit: $100
Lawyers: $25
Future maint on trucks: $40
Overhead, including water, lights, insurance, buildings, vans, employees,
etc....not listed above $400

What we put in our pockets, contrary to popular belief, is spent normally
before you call us. Get a damn grip..Do you walk into your local Starbucks
and ask them to break down a cup of overpriced, ****ty coffee? Of COURSE
not. Do you call your electric utility and ask them to break down the charge
for you, right down the employee pay? Of course not.
Its none of your business what the unit costs the contractor, and this is a
fact of this neat little thing called free trade.


I understand there is a markup and labor
costs to figure in. I'll pay 3k if that's the fair price for a
quality job. I shouldn't have to deal with a quote for a 70% profit
on the same quality job.

LOL...but you are willing to pay an easy 500% markup on a cup of coffee?????

* I never said that I was a tenant.

Sure act like one...

* The coils & blower are in a location that would involve removing a
ceiling to access (beyond a filter change). So changing that out
would involve ~500-1000 worth of contracting work to rip out, and
later replace & paint the ceiling. Given it's my kitchen ceiling, I'd
prefer not to do that.

Given that you wont get near the rated SEER with ANY unit you put in, it
might be a case of too bad, so sad.
You now will have to pay for the original contractor that built the
buildings screw up and thats not leaving an access point to remove old
equipment when it is past its time. BTW...IF you do opt for a complete,
fully working system, then current code states you have to put in an
access...period.


Further information.... There are 6 appartments in my building, all
with 17 year old heat pumps in dire condition (2 dead, 4 dying). All
1.5 ton York units. The other quote I wanted, and should receive from
the same guy at some point this week is for a replacement of all 6
heat pumps. I would figure a 6 unit install would have a lower markup
per unit (say 20% each instead of 30%) and a reduced per unit labor
due to the economies of scale. So if one unit was 2500, maybe (I said
maybe please don't flame me on this) the whole thing would be 12,000
(6x2000). I'd figure it would be a day job to do all 6, vs probably 3
or so hours to do 1, and they'd only have to drive out once, carry the
tools to the roof once, and so on. The building's association would
be paying for the job, so there is very little payment risk on the
job.

6 units, 4 stories up...and you want it for 12 grand?
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA

Ok...really....get serious.

I just did 4 units, 1.5 ton Yorks, ground level, apartments, section 8
housing as a matter of fact...and I was the low bid..well...next to the low
bid..the low bidder was a Lennox guy that really didnt give a **** one way
or the other, and neither did I...
care to guess what the low bid was?
Oh..they got new air handlers too...heat strips, and some minor duct
mods...new thermostats....and drains.
BEFORE the electrican got his bill in, it was over $11,000.
That was the LOW bid. That was not MY bid. The high bid was over
$17,000....you go figure...



One last question.. My power company is offering a rebate for high
efficiency heat pumps.. $300 for a 12 SEER, or $500 for a 14 SEER.

Thats all? Sheesh....the guy that is getting two 12 SEER units in tomorrow
is getting $450 each back from the electric co-op, and $75 each from York...
He DID tell you about the current rebate program in effect right???


Can I upgrade the Heat pump to a higher SEER without changing the
inside coils (I was told no, that my coils were 10 SEER which I can't
verify)?

No.
You cant. York requires a metering device change out, a higher CFM fan, and
a larger coil for 12 SEER, meaing, you would have a min of a 2 ton air
handler with a change out of the orifice.

As far as verification of the unit...all you have to do, is post the model
and the serial numbers on the unit, the air handler that is, and I will
gladly tell you for FREE..(GASP!) what unit they are, and what they are
rated at.

And how much more does (should, roughly) the 14 Seer
Lattitude/Olympian cost than the 10?

Minimum of $1300....additional.

12 vs 10? Should the labor be
the same?

About $600..labor is more intensive since you are going to be changing out
the air handler to do either...and should be doing that now anyway...


Alright, one more.. Do I have to go York if I don't want to change
the inside coils? I'm assuming "Yes", or "I better", but I've assumed
wrong, so why not ask.

No..you can do anything you want. You have a York airhandler, and if it is
an FRP series, then you have a unit that is the closest match to what you
are doing. Go Ruud/Rheem, and your lineset will be wrong, and you will have
issues. Same with Trane/American Standard IIRC.


Thanks for your help, both public and private.
Peter


If you are getting advice from Dave, or Stormin Moron...keep in mind, they
are not in the trade, and any advice you take from them, you take in the
position of a total and complete fool. Their advice has been wrong, and
dangerous, and if you cant take someone telling you in a matter of fact way
things, then tough...part of the problem with the trade now is that people
like Dave, and Chris are out there, sweet talking, making you feel good, and
raping the hell out of your wallet.
There is right, and there is correct, and there is Daves way, and God help
you if you take Chris' advice...
Of course...Chris is in your area..if you want a true, blue, leave you
hanging when its ****ed, with no warranty since it wasnt installed by a
competent dealer...use Chris...



(Peter Drier) wrote in message
om...
I just received an estimate to replace the heat pump for my apartment.
The evaporator coils, blower, and electric (emergency) heater,
thermostat, and infrastructure would all stay the same. Only the heat
pump, and freon would be changed out.

Significant bits of the quote:

Installation of 1 x 1.5 ton 10 seer heat pump condensing unit
Parts: Disposal, suction dryer, nitrogen, Box, whip, fuses, delivery,
filters, copper pipe, fittings
Warrantee - 5 year compressor, 5 year parts, 6 months labor/delivery

Total is $2937.. 1937 up front, 1000 upon completion.

The existing system is a York circa 1987, and the guy giving me the
quote is the only York dealer in my county. I pulled up the York
website while he was at my apt, and he said the replacement would be
their Olympian 10, 1.5 ton unit.

Having done my homework to a decent extent, I've seen other quotes for
1.5 ton 10 SEER heat pump replacement jobs in the $1200-1500 range, so
this ~$3k quote threw me.

The only real trick to this install should be the fact it's a 4 story
walkup, and the heat pump lives above the 4th story. So it will need
to be carried up 4 flights of stairs, and then up a ladder. This unit
weighs in at 131 lbs, so this isn't an unreasonable feat.

This is in Hoboken NJ, just outside Manhattan if the area matters
much.

Does anyone have an opinion on this cost? Any idea what the dealer's
cost is for the Olympian 10-1.5 ton, roughly? Any tactics on getting
a lower cost/counter offering? In the end, I'll pay what I should,
but I can't stand getting ripped off (or people who attempt to)
because I look fairly young.

and as for the parts section (copied directly from the quote), any
idea what the "Box", "whip", and "filters" are for? I can make a
guess on the filters one, but the others? should he be being more
specific?

Thanks,
Peter