On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 23:01:54 -0400, "CBhVAC:\)"
wrote:


"Chris J..." wrote in message
.. .


Could I fit those into the attic access hatches? The hatches are just
sheet drywall, but I could replace that with wood or steel and paint
it.

You could, but you would want them in the ceiling in EVERY room you want
cooled, and, you will need enough to keep the air flowing and not build a
static pressure in the home...

There are a few rooms that would be lack flow, such as bathrooms and
one large room, but mostly there would bee good airflow just using the
attic hatch locations. The large room I mentioned couldn't have
upducts of any sort in it due to it being right under living space,
and having no exterior walls. It's not an issue though, as it stays
fairly cool as is, due to being half underground. .

More like 40 of them...

ok...your at about 4,000CFM then, IF they are 6 inch,

Except for a few four inch and a few more large wall vents directly in
the main ducts, they are.

and what you gonna do
wtih the other 2500 from a MC64?

The ones I'd seen so far were side-draft, around 3000 CFM... For most
of the warm months I need only a little cooling, and I have the AC for
times when the evap can't handle it. If I need 5000 CFM, I think I can
handle that by routing some of it through the AC return ducts, but any
more and I'm probably sunk.

One brand I've found so far is Champion, but I'm by no means done
looking yet.

On top of the Trane unit is what I call the "main junction" (Sorry, I
don't know the correct terminology for any of this).

Plenum

Thanks...

When the blower on the Trane is running full power, the air (hot or
cold) comes out of registers more like a draft. But, one nice thing is
it's totally silent.

Then it sounds like it had a complete manual D and J on it when the home was
built.

Could be, but I have no idea. The company that did it went out of
business, and the guy I bought the house from (who designed it and had
it built) is in a mental hospital. (I'm not kidding).

If you still think this is insufficient ducting, I'll scrap the
project, but I just wanted to be sure I'd described it adequately.
Other AC installations I've seen have just one or two of the 12X24 or
similar sized ducts coming out of the main junction. I've never seen
four before.

No..the big issue would be using the same ducts as the AC unit. you can not
completely seal the unit, even with a jack for the unit that would be
automatic when the coolers on..
Altho....you COULD have a White Rodgers low voltage control added to the
swamp, and it would be able to control with a little relay and creative
thinking, a bypass for the AC, so that if you were running the swamp, the ac
would never come on, and then you could have dampers added that would
automatically close it off...humm...gotta think on this one for a sec...or
three...

One way I was thinking of handling the situation was by powering the
cooler from the line to the AC, but switched so it would be to one or
the other, but not both.

I'm pretty good with electronics, so putting in relays, even building
control circuits, would be a snap if I need to do it. It would be very
simple to use a live circuit in the cooler as a trigger for a relay
that would kill power to the AC.

Due to the age of this system, I'd be willing to spend a few grand for
a new, high-SEER one to save 40%, but I wouldn't to, say, save 10%.

Nor would anyone with a bit of sense,

Given that I'm willing to attempt this project, that wouldn't apply to
me.. :-)

but its talked into people daily.
I have never told anyone that a unit will pay for itself, unless after
running the numbers, like an old Arkel Servel unit that will cost about 500
a month in NG to run the AC, since they dont really. Its like buying a new
car that gets better gas mileage...you STILL have to buy the new car...

My favorite reply to any salesman who uses the "it will pay for
itself" line on me; "Great! Nice to know I'll never have to make any
payments!!!"


How? The utility room would be isolated from the crawlspace by what I
propose. The Utility room would be vented to the exterior instead. (by
running an airtight duct through the crawlspace to an exterior wall),
so how would it be different from venting the utility room elsewhere?
Other then the present vent duct from the utility room to the
crawlspace, there is air connection between them (they are not even
adjacent). I'm not trying to refute what you say, I'm just making sure
I didn't explain myself badly and give you a false picture of what the
end result would be.

Nope..I think I see it ok, and you would STILL be creating a negative zone,
and even with a power vent, you have to remember, air is fluid and seeks
own.

OK, how would running the utility vent the way I propose be any
different from putting in an entirely new vent that avoids the
crawlspace entirely (and sealing off the present one into the
crawlspace)? This is also an option...

Agreed that I definitely don't want any chance of exhaust gasses in
the house.

Nor does anyone else...go to sleep...........and....thats...it...

I keep CO2 alarms for that reason... A friend of mine almost died of
CO2 from a furnace a few years ago.

Unless I can resolve the ductwork and the water heater issues it's a
definite no-go. I'm not worried about the gas furnace part of the
Trane, as it's a powered exhaust, and I can't imagine wanting to run
the heater and the cooler at the same time anyway.

Again...a bit of relay work, and you never have to worry about it.

I'll definitely do that. it would preclude accidentally turning them
both on at the same time.

I know that (:-)), but they also are about the best informed people in
this area. (says a lot for the area, huh?).

Umm...first thought...

Oh ****....you got to be in Sierra Vista..but you said northern...so that
kills that...LOL

ROFL!!! I've been to Sierra Vista a few times, and I know what you
mean, and my area isn't too different. The city I live near is
Prescott, and just about all businesses here have a "couldn't give a
damn" attitude. I'm actually several miles outside (and about 1700
feet higher than) Prescott.

If I understand the term right, I'd need to hire someone with a lot of
experience; there are too many unusual factors here (it's kind of a
weird house, but I like it.). The construction is non-standard in many
areas; multiple roofs of different (and non-conventional)
construction, exterior walls of non-conventional construction (and
also in some cases non-vertical) several custom made windows of odd
design and shape (such as protruding half-pyramids) etc. Walls with
alternating brick overlayed by polished granite, and conventional
frame construction in diagonal bands (which change in width as they go
up, making it worse), etc. No way I know of to figure R-values for
much of it.

Everything in your home that is used in contruction has an R value that can
be determined, U values, T values..etc...with the right guy using manual J.
Manual J isnt that hard..its complicated.

The problem is determining what, exactly was used. Without opening
walls and ceilings, you just can't in some areas, due to oddball
construction.

When I had my AC serviced last year, I asked about calculating the
correct size, and the service guy (from a place that does
installations) looked around and shook his head, telling me he had no
idea how it could be done.

Then NEVER let that company back in your home...ever...period.

They actually have the best reputation in the area, and probably with
good reason. But I did get the impression that they don't know what
they are talking about in some cases. For example, they saw no
problem, until I explained it, with my humidifier (attached to the
heater) installation (done when the house was built, and not by me.)
It's got an overflow drain that is a piece of clear tubing. To get
that connected to the sewer, they had tapped into the AC drain line
*downstream * of the trap, did not add a trap, then ran the PCV
diagonally across the front of the Trane unit (making getting the
front panels on and off a nightmare) and then hung the open end by a
string (!!!!) from the humidifier. They had stuck the clear drain line
in there, and "sealed" it in by stuffing a paper towel in around it.
Amongst other things, this arrangement was putting sewer gas directly
into my air ductwork! And this company I am talking about "didn't see
a problem with it" when i asked them to look at it. I fixed the
problem myself.

I remember the AC ran just about continuously on hot (over 115) days.
That would indicate a wrong size, if I'm understanding correctly?

Actually, that for your area, sounds almost perfect.
it will run on the hottest days, all the time....normal.

This was in an apartment down in Phoenix, which has a much warmer
climate...

I've got my AC on today, with a high of 91 (hot but not
record-breaking for this area, and the AC is handling the afternoon
load (the worst, due to Western exposure) by running 22 minutes out of
the last hour. Sound ok?

The heater runs about 45 minutes an hour when it's 15 below zero and
windy, which is the coldest I've seen here.

attached) but others have attics. Total attic square footage is around
900 sq. ft, with an average height of (guessing) two feet, but going
from a few inches near the Soffits vents to a few feet under the ridge
vents. All are accessible.

Idea to consider, and its common in the upper class strict neighborhoods in
Palm Springs...and surrounding areas...
The cooler, a side draft, is mounted outside, on the side of the home, with
a support made for it. IT will have to be custom fabricated, and will need
of course to be secured to the home via the studs, with long bolts. The unit
will be secured to the stand after its mounted, and will need to be able to
get the doors off to service it.
The duct run can be pulled throughout the attic, and as long as you can
access the entire house from there, you have it made.
Thats what I was thinking...

That would be great, but unfortunately it won't work. Due to the
layout of the house, the attics are above different stories, and don't
connect. There is no possibility that I can see of running ducting.
The only way I can see would be to have three of the setups you
describe, and given the cost and complexity of that and the new
ducting, I think I'm much better off even with my existing AC.

Thanks again!