"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 25/02/2020 09:51, Pancho wrote:
On 24/02/2020 22:48, Steve Walker wrote:

I've never got this argument.

Yep, I fully understand that EU bureaucrats are corrupt, incompetents
lining their own pockets. The thing is that Westminster bureaucrats are
the same. Local councils too, for that matter.

But the citizens of the UK can vote out councillors or a government that
they feel is itself incompetent or corrupt or who fail to adequately
direct and control bureaucrats who are like that. Our votes had little
effect on the EU.


I'm a citizen of London, England, The UK, and formerly the EU. To be
honest I have felt more at home in New York or Amsterdam than I have in
rural villages in the UK.

yep. urban people are totally unable to function in or comprehend life
outside of a completely man made environment


My votes in the UK have almost always had no effect, I have lived in safe
seats. It is inevitable that If I am a part of any large group my say
will count for little. In the UK we are largely controlled by bureaucrats
and the super rich.

I too have lived in safe seats. The only parties I have voted for in te
last 20 years have been the ones that Nigel Farage was in. He never gained
a Westminster seat and yet my vote was not wasted. I had it from a Tory
activist that it was in fact being 'scared of UKIP' that brought the
referendum at all.

I believe in personal freedom, I believe local communities should be
given freedom, devolution of power, but we need some wider rules and
controls, otherwise we often end up in a race to the bottom.

Well, so you are firmly in favour of Brexit then?

I don't see why these wider controls should stop at Westminster.

So I really can't understand the distinction you are trying to draw.

And I can't understand your distinction either. It seems obvious to me
that nothing is perfect and ideological solutions are worst of all: But
then I don't see politics as an exercise in morality, but as an engineer,
in terms of functional effectiveness in bring health and happiness to the
people that comprise nations.
That implies we need structures and organisations appropriate to the
levels at which they deployed: what we don't need is micro management from
Brussels. Still less do we need political decisions taken by teenage
Swedes or a bunch of activists digging up Trinity College.
Nothing wrong with *an* EU. Everything wrong with the *current* EU.
Functionally pointless organisation.
Likewise city dwellers, who, as you have admitted, don't have a clue about
rural matters, where all their food, energy, water and wealth comes from

Thats not true of wealth.

and where all their **** and waste rubbish goes to, should
not seek to impose their faux morality on people who underpin their
existence.

Gay cockerels end up in pies, for instance, not because they are morally
abhorrent, but because they are bloody useless for anything else.



--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"