"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 05/02/2020 10:48, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 09:25:02 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip

Says a poor loser, who conveniently forgets the tales of economic
collapse told by losers.

Yes, he carefully overlooks all the Project Fear lies.

Because (and obviously you wouldn't get this on your own because you
are a left brainer), Leave won and only *Leaving* would be a change
from the status quo.

There was no status quo. The EU is constantly changing, taking in more
countries (people voted to be a group of 9 not 28), adding new rules and
laws or changing old ones. Remainers could no more say where the EU would
be in 20 years than leavers could about the UK

Yes.

- except that in another 20 years, if the EU was heading in a direction
that the UK public did not like, our businesses and institutions would be
that much more intertwined that leaving would be nigh on impossible.

Dont buy that given how dramatically multinationals work now.

The difficulties and possible damages that you repeatedly list shows that
the window of opportunity to leave was closing and it was now or never.

Dont buy that either, particularly in say 5 years or so. Not
that I am suggesting that there was any point in waiting,

If you dare someone to jump off a cliff (for no tangible reason, like
the false promise of something) and they don't, there is nothing lost,
it's only if they jump are questions likely to be asked and especially
your part in it.

There is no false promise in self-determination and independence.

I *really* CGAF if we left or stayed, as long as whatever we did was
decided honestly and fairly and was done democratically (a straight
advisory referendum first, then a people vote for starters) and where
liars *aren't* allowed to post lies on the sides of busses on the
grounds it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

What about remainers - that the economy would collapse immediately after a
leave vote, that jobs would immediately disappear, that wages would fall
straight away.

Do you think for one second they would have been allowed to post the
lies on the side of the bust if they were required to go though some
sort of honesty audit first?

Probably some explanatory small-print would have been required.

Just as would have been required (and far more lines of it) with many of
"Project Fear's" claims.

Also, in your left brainer world, how many Remainers do you actually
think thought the sky would fall in ... but might just be cautious /
concerned that it might not actually do us the good that the Leavers
promised but couldn't justify?

So economic concerns are all that matters and self-determination has no
value?

Yeah, thats obviously silly.

There is nothing dangerous in being a glass half empty person,
especially when there is little tangible proof that the promise of
more water may just be hopes and dreams.

Except that worry about the future may just stop you making that journey
to find more water.

This is the problem with left brainers and cognitive bias, they think
that both sides are equal and that's far from the truth. Leavers and
only leavers were the activists and *have to* 'sell' the facts to
everone else. They didn't, they used tricks and lies.

No. Remaining was also about a process of change - and one where we we
could not make the decisions.

Democracy is something that happens continuously and why I can't
support (and never will) us Leaving the EU under those bogus grounds.

Hardly continuous when people are not given the opportunity to vote on it
for over 40 years!