On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 9:11:05 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/5/2020 12:34 AM, dpb wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:54 PM, dpb wrote:
On 2/4/2020 8:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2020 9:34 PM, dpb wrote:
On 2/4/2020 7:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...

I recently posted numbers on the amount of fuel we burn and it is
incredible.Â* Burning fuel adds heat.Â* I'm not qualified to say how
much but the scientists seem to think it is quite a bit.
...

You seem totally unaware yet of the issue that is supposedly the
crux of the problem is the "greenhouse gas" effect; mostly CO2 is
the supposed culprit.

If there were no waste heat but the CO2 was emitted the models
would show essentially the same result; the waste heat is radiated
to the black sky for the most part.

--
Burning fuel makes both heat and CO2.Â* Stop burning as much.Â* Simple.

And put a segment of the economy completely under, sure.

I've been in the coal fields of E KY, VA, WVA selling, installing and
servicing a line of online coal analyzers.Â* These had the ability to
keep independent smaller mines open by sorting clean coal from
not-so-clean such that a significant fraction of production could
avoid having the extra cost of washing.Â* That saved real jobs for
real people.

For larger operations, they enhanced profitability with the same net
result of maintaining operating ability that otherwise was lost.

At mine-mouth power plants, they had a similar function in being able
to reduce emissions by knowing coal quality going in.

At prep plants, they loaded trains to match customer specifications.

There isn't much in those hills except coal; preventing them from
being able to make a living with what has been provided is not good
sense in my book.

--

Think long range.Â* Same at stagecoach makers, horse shoe makers, you
don't suddenly stop and put them out of work.Â* Times change,
industries change, people adapt.Â* Same as they have for centuries..

Biden is going to give them all jobs as coders too.

Good luck with that...

Until you been there, you can't begin to imagine.

Easy to blow 'em off when you're comfy in your own living room with a
comfortable living.

--

Not blowing them off at all. It can be evolution, not revolution. It
won't happen in five years either but do you continue to poison our
atmosphere forever?

We have to look at what is good for the world, not just a few jobs that
can be replaced over time. Things ar slow at the buggy whip factory too.


We can argue and disagree about how fast things should be done,
what should be done, etc. But what is absurd at this point is to
just deny that we should do anything at all and to argue that we
should burn more coal. That's Trump's position. Withdrawing from
the Paris agreement, which wasn't going to bind the US to do
anything specific, was really dumb.

And most of what has been done over the last couple of decades
has been a win-win. Cars have better MPG. Furnaces are 95%
instead of 80%. AC went from 10 SEER to 14 to 18. Buildings
are better insulated. Just turning down the thermostat in
winter and putting on a sweater helps with CO2 and saves $$.
My gas bill was cut by ~40% going to a new furnace. Solar
is now down to the point where it's becoming cost effective
without subsidies. If Trump's views and policies had been
in place, what would have happened?