On 24/10/2019 20:54, NY wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
The primary purpose of those lights is to be seen, and if they cannot
be seen because of other lights, then the design is bad and
regulations should prohibit it. In days gone by (eg 1970s), it was
common for side and indicator to be within or below the front bumper
- well away from the headlights. Not any more - there's probably a
rule that says this is specifically forbidden, which is utterly
counter-intuitive.

Some have the indicator inside the headlamp lens and the rear
indicator inside a circular brake light. Both useless.

The indicator inside the brake light ring is VW Golf (and maybe other
VWs) at its worst. Quite how that got past even the most preliminary
safety checks during the design stage is beyond me. Likewise for
indicators in the headlamp housing, which applies to almost every car
since the 1990s.

I don't mean just within the cover, actually in the headlight itself. I
can't think where I have seen those now though.

DRLs can be a problem, although most cars seem to dim/extinguish the
DRL on the side which is indicating - sometimes the absence of DRL is
seen before the flashing of the orange indicator ;-)

Another problem with DRLs is that around town, drivers see the road in
front lit up by them and as so many cars have permanently lit dashes,
they don't realise that they've got no lights on at the back.

I'd require that all dash illumination only comes on when the lights
are on - they'd notice a lot quicker when they tried to look at the
speedo and couldn't see it!

Cars with real dials are usually very hard to see at night without the
panel lights on (which come on with the side lights) which tends to
enforce what you are suggesting. The problem is with cars that have
digital displays, because those have to come on even during the day when
you won't have your lights on.

I'm not up to cars that new I have however driven a number of cars
with permanently illuminated dashes and conventional dials. Most of
those cars were old enough to use bulbs rather than LEDs and using them
all the time seemed to shorten the bulb life. Of course replacement
meant removing half the dash!

How anyone can see to drive at night with the road only illuminated by
side or DRL beats me, though for some godforsaken reason it is actually
not illegal to drive on side lights only as long as the road is lit by
street lights. Both for making myself more visible and for lighting
objects from the side as well as from overhead to make hazards more
visible, I would never dream of turning my headlights out just because
there are street lights, and I use high beam as much as possible as long
as it will not dazzle any other vehicle driver (car or bike) -
pedestrians who are dazzled have the luxury of being able to close their
eyes or look away which someone in charge of a moving vehicle can't do.

Yes, I'd agree with that, although I will try not to dazzle pedestrians
either, as long as it is safe for me to do so.

I do object though to high-powered, flashing bike lights. The flash
attracts your eyes, as they move with the bike, there is no concept of
dipped beam and the power can be absolutely dazzling. Even worse are the
ones that they mount on their heads, so they see you, look and direct
the beam right at your eyes!

SteveW