In article , (Harry K) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
In article ,
(Harry K) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
. com...
In article ,
(Harry K) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
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In article ,
(Harry K) wrote:
"Greg O" wrote in message
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"The Other Harry" wrote in message
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The question was (and is), what happens to the load?

If the entire pot arrangement weighs 40 pounds, does half
of that load go to the top hook and half of it go to the
anchor hook?

--
Harry

I am assuming you have a rope attached to the pot, that runs up to a
hook
or
pulley attached to the ceiling,, then back down to an cleat.
If the pot weighs 40 lbs, the top hook in the ceiling, (or window
frame,
whatever!) with the pulley will be carrying 80 lbs. The tension,
(weight)
felt by the rope at the cleat will be 40 lbs.
Greg

Wrong. The tension on both sides will be equal (20 lbs) and the top
hook will feel 40lbs. There is nothing being added to the 40 lbs to
increase it to 80. I think you have confused the effect of a pulley
which, when rigged right, will cut the lifting force by 1/2.

It appears that *you* are the confused one here. A *movable* pulley
will
cut
the lifting force in half. A *fixed* pulley only changes the direction
in
which the force is applied -- and this situation is entirely analogous
to
a
fixed pulley.

--------40----top-------------
/\
/ \
20/ \20
/ \
load/40 \anchor
------------bottom-------

Nope. You have a major problem he on the left side, a 40-lb weight
is
suspended on a rope that has only 20 lbs tension. Doesn't work that
way.

Suppose the anchor on the right is replaced by an un-anchored weight.
What

weight is required on the right to balance the 40 lb weight on the
left?
According to your diagram, the answer is 20 lbs. Now do you see your
error?

--------------------top--------------
\anchor /anchor or pulley
\ /
\20 /20
\ /
\ /
\/
40
load with pulley
--------------------bottom----------

Not the same situation.

No. My first diagram is wrong in that the 20lbs should be 40. The
second is correct. Or am I misunderstanding your second part?

Permit me to clarify. I agree that your second diagram is correct. My
point
is
that it's not the same situation as the first diagram, and thus the loads
in the second diagram *must* be different from the loads in the first. You
now
state correctly that the loads in the first diagram should be indicated as
40,
not 20, and I wish to emphasize that this is loadS plural, i.e. in both
segments of the rope -- thus the load on the top anchor in the first
diagram
is in fact 80 pounds, not 40 as you stated in your text.

No, it is 40. The second 40 is sort of a ghost 40lbs as it is the
-same- 40 lbs only extended to a second anchor.

Wrong.

Try it, lift 40 lbs
directly and then run the rope over a plley and pull on it, you will
still only see 40 lbs. See me exlanation to Greg O.

I *did* try it, as I described in an earlier post. Go back to the original
post in this thread. The question is how much load is placed on the beam or
whatever that the pulley hangs from. With a weight hanging free on one side,
and the rope it hangs from tied off to a stationary object on the other side,

the load placed on the pulley's support is approximately double that of the
weight, depending on the angle of the anchored segment of the rope. The
mathematics behind this has been clearly (and correctly) described by others
in this thread, and I won't repeat it here. You can look it up if you want to

understand why this doesn't work the way you think it does.

Your explanation to Greg is just as flawed as your explanation here.

Harry K

Well what can I say. If you saw -anyone- post an explanation of their
being 80 lbs at the anchor, point the way. Everyone that has tried
(you and Greg) have been proved wrong by me, by Tom and by every
physics book in existance.

It's there, Harry, just read the thread. Try the first couple of posts that
Michael Daly made. You haven't proven anything except your own inability to
take measurements, and Tom hasn't even attempted a proof of anything, all he's
done is to say "Harry's right" without even offering any reasoning to back it
up. And you're both wrong.