On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:16:30 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 7:33:38 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:57:52 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

The voltage perhaps.

Why would the voltage change?

That's the way batterys work, the battery voltage does change as its
charged.

That's determined by the alternator or charger.

Nope.

Yip. I can put any voltage I like across a battery's terminals. The battery then chooses how much current is drawn.

Correct, within reason and the physical limits of the battery. A battery
looks like an ideal voltage source connected in series with a low value
resistor.





Let's say the charger/alternator gives out 14.4V initially, to charge the
battery quickly. It'll just sit at 14.4V forever, providing the charger
can give out enough current to charge the slightly flat battery and power
any connected loads.

Its more complicated than that with the current going to the battery and the
battery is charged.

If the battery had no loads connected, it would take a lot less current
when it became full, but the voltage would stay the same.

No it doesn't even with a very crude battery charger.

For example, I'm currently keeping my car's battery topped up with a bench supply overnight. It's set to 13.8V, with a current limiter only to prevent overloading the supply. The voltage stays at 13.8V all the time, sometimes 100mA is drawn, sometimes up to 4A. The only way I or the supply can tell the battery is full, is by the current dropping to 100mA. But it's actually always full, as when 4A is drawn, that's going to a load.

If the charger monitored the current it was providing, how does it know if
the battery is still charging at 10 amps, or if the battery is full and
there's a 10 amp load?

By checking the current actually being delivered to the battery.

I guess that may be true, if the car's computer has two ammeters and subtracts one from the other. But AFAIK, the alternator regulator only works by it's own current sensor. And that current could be going into the battery, or past it to the loads.

The voltage regulator actually senses VOLTAGE, which is why it;s called
a voltage regulator.

No it doesn't. It keeps the voltage at the correct level for charging, which is 14.4V for fast charge and 13.8V for trickle charge. It senses a drop in current to tell when the battery is full.

But I agree, I have yet to see a car where the
computer is monitoring the current flow into the battery. And even if
some very modern cars do,

Mine is 2002, and French, so subtract a few years. Something changes the regulator from 14.4V to 13.8V when it knows the battery is full. here has to be a sensor outside the alternator and regulator so it knows the battery is full. Because if I had the lights on, it would see that as a the same as the battery still charging

it doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of cars
have worked fine with the same batteries and just a simple voltage
regulator. And that seemed to be your question, what is required to
keep a battery properly charged and how it works. Obviously no complicated
computers, current monitoring, etc is required as evidenced by billions
of cars.

They probably either just charged at 13.8V (which is why older cars got flat batteries, they never did a fast boost charge after starting), or they charged at 14.4V and assumed a battery wouldn't mind that as your car ain't running 24/7, or did a compromise and charged at about 14V. But stick a battery on 14.4V on your bench forever and it will burn out in a few months.