On 5/5/19 3:46 am, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2019 09:48:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

Wow, what BS and false comparison. Xeno spent a lot of time giving an
excellent explanation of the physics involved, it's not some fairy tale.

Hi Trader,

Let's act like adults please.
o Adults should be capable of separating bull****, from the facts

Where the main thing we need to know is the answer to the question
o What percentage of US passenger tires _need_ dynamic balance
o Particularly after a home DIY of matchmount/static balancing, plus
o A doublecheck of that static balancing with a dynamic drive

Let's act like adults, Trader...

Would be helpful if you followed you own recommendation.

Nobody ever said that a dynamic imbalance can't occur.
o Even after a good match mount & static balance
o And, particularly even after a doublecheck at speed

I repeat: Nobody ever said that dynamic balance can't occur
o Just like nobody said that shopping cart imbalances can't occur

But for Xeno to make those wide emphatic sweeping claims he made
o Is sort of like saying that all shopping carts need dynamic balancing

Sure, _some_ shopping cards need dynamic balancing
o But not all of them, Trader.

Shopping cart wheel wobble has *nothing* to do with wheel balance and
everything to do with geometry, in particular caster trail. If you
understood car steering geometry you would realise this.

Perhaps not even most of them, Trader.
o Some of them do, but the question is how many need dynamic balancing
o After they've been match mounted, statically balanced, & checked at speed

Adults can handle concepts that have a bit of complexity to them.

Guess that's too much for you by the look of it.

If you don't comprehend this concept, then re-read my initial responses to
Xeno where your cite (see below) implies that you appear to own the
comprehension of a child, Trader.

Xeno's claim was a sweeping claim, based on pure bull****, Trader.
o All you're seeing from me is my allergic response to bull****

My claim was based on a working lifetime in the motor industry, a claim
you cannot make since the sum total of your experience is 30 tyres and
that only with a static balancer.

It's like me claiming that all shopping carts need dynamic balancing
o Simply because my experience is that they're wobbly once in a while

See my *sweeping statement* above!

Name just _one_ reliable cite that backs up your beliefs, Xeno.
o Name just one
That's a foolish challenge to issue. Do you really think there isn't even
ONE reliable source, eg tire manufacturers or auto authorities, that say
that tires should be dynamically balanced? Really?

Trader,

Do you own the comprehensive brain of an adult, or of a small child?

Why do you ask that question when it is you who is being argumentative here?

Nobody ever said that tires can't be dynamically unbalanced for Christ's
sake, even after match mounting at home, and even after subsequent static
balance at home, and even after subsequent dynamic tests at speed.

So why waste time static balancing when you will do it right first time
with a dynamic balance? No trial and error required.

Just like nobody said that shopping carts can by dynamically unbalanced.
o The question is WHAT PERCENTAGE of mounts are dynamically unbalanced.
o After match mounting, static balancing, & dynamic tests at speed.

Most of them if the weights required to correct the imbalance is any guide.

I'm allergic to unsubstantiated bull****, Clare.
o If Xeno's belief system is based on facts, he can pass this simple test:

Name Just One.

I'll give you one. Michelin
https://www.michelinman.com/US/en/help/faq.html
Should my tires be balanced?
Proper balancing is critical for optimal vehicle performance,
especially at today's higher highway speeds.

Do you own the comprehensive mind of an _adult_ Trader?

He does, you do not.

o Do you even comprehend the stated problem set, Trader?

He does, you do not.

Nobody even once said that 'proper balancing' isn't what we're after.

Dynamic balancing *is* proper balancing. My point was that static
balancing is a waste of time because it cannot guarantee proper
balancing 100% of the time. It cannot guarantee it 50% of the time. I
have balanced more tyres on a dynamic balancer than I care to recall and
pretty much all required *dynamic balancing* due to unbalanced masses
being offset from the tread centreline. Had you *any* experience in the
industry with a dynamic wheel balancer you would know this to be true.

When tire and wheel assemblies are unbalanced, a vibration can result
from wheel and assembly shimmy (shaking from side to side)
or wheel assembly tramp (tire and wheel hopping up and down).
Therefore, it is important that these assemblies are in both
static and dynamic balance

Um... Trader. Everything you post is from the brain of a child.
o Nobody ever said that balancing wasn't important.

Balancing is important, dynamic balancing is the only way to do it properly.


And just for you:
Can I mount my own tire on the wheel?
Never try to mount your own tires.
Tire mounting is a job for the people who have the proper equipment
and experience. If you try to do it yourself, you run the risk of
serious injury to yourself as well as possible damage to the tire
and rim.

Um, Trader, do you even realize what you're proving?
HINT: You apparently own the mind of a child, Trader.

He is making a statement that I would make having seen *idiots* do more
damage to their tyres/wheels through a lack of understanding of the
principles involved and a lack of the requisite training.

If Michelin says don't do what the pros do because you
"run the risk" of (whatever), then, well, then YOU won't do it.
o That's because you appear to own the mind of a child, Trader.

The pros have been trained and have experience. That's what makes them
pros and why what they do *looks easy*.

But adults can see that quote for what it actually is.
o Where adults can handle basic facts better than can small children.

Try Google, they are there by the dozens.

Hi Trader,

Sigh. (This never ends)

That statement, just like _every_ statement from you, is terrifying in that
it clearly proves not only that you appear to own the cognitive skills of a
small child, but that you actually _believe_ that because Michelin said you
shouldn't do it, that you shouldn't do it.

Guess what.
o By the same logic, you shouldn't do many DIYs that pros do all the time.

The differences between a DIYer and a pro are training and experience.

In summary, every post from you, sadly, appears to indicate only that you
don't comprehend even the slightest bit of what the problem set entails.

Since the problem set is patently simple,
o The fact you don't comprehend it, is a bit terrifying.

Please try to comprehend the problem set:
o The question is what percentage of wheels _need_ dynamic balance
o After a good match mount, static balance, & pass on perceptible vibration

It's the *imperceptible vibration* that causes issues, imperceptible
because modern cars are designed to isolate vehicle occupants from such
things. Because they are *imperceptible* to humans does not mean they do
not exist.

I don't think _anyone_ knows the answer to _that_ adult question, Trader.
o I admit, I don't know the answer either.

But it's pure bull****, IMHO, if someone claims it's _all_ wheels.



--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)