On 27/04/2019 20:10, NY wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

I remember when mk2 Sierras were common and they were wired in two
different waysÂ* - some had the tail and brake lights combined and with
a pair of separate fog lights, while others (mine included) had tail
and fog lights combined and a pair of separate brake lights. I always
thought the latter far superior for immediate visibility and a good
example of how a little thought can vastly improve the practicality.
Why designers now think it is sensible to put indicators in the middle
of circular brake lights or close to (or even within) the lens of
headlights, I don't know.

No. It's a shame that the Construction and Use regulations are so
toothless that they don't legislate about this, in the way that the US
safety rules were very strict about headlights on imported vehicles,
requiring cars such as the E Type Jag to be re-designed for US market
(and that design then became the worldwide standard).

The C&U regulations are not toothless, it is simply that they are
overruled by EU legislation that requires us to accept any vehicle type
approved anywhere in the EU.

Indicators (and any other lights) need to be seen and clearly
distinguished from everything else - that is their purpose. All other
considerations, such as design and the modern trend of orange bulbs with
clear lenses, must take a back seat compared with the actual function of
them.

Definitely.

I've not actually seen any cars with combined tail and fog lights, with
separate brake lights.

Definitely the case with some, but not all, mk2 Sierras. An excellent
design.

, but I too have often thought that it would be a
better design, since the tail and fog lights do the same job of defining
the presence and width of a vehicle - in dark-but-clear and in foggy
conditions respectively.

Agreed. More importantly though is that unlit lights coming on are a lot
more obvious than sidelights getting brighter - even more so when the
fog-lights are already on.

I wish the C&U regs also mandated that fog lights must be paired, just
like tail lights are, and dictated that one fog light on the off side is
not sufficient because it does not define the vehicle's width and
therefore allow you to judge your approximate distance from the vehicle
in front.

Paired is definitely better - not only does it help with distance, but
it works for driving abroad and gives redundancy if one bulb should fail.

All my previous cars (Renault 5s, VW Golfs, Peugeot 306s) came with two
fog light bulb holders but with a bulb only in the offside holder, so it
was dead easy to fit an extra bulb to make sure my fog lamps were
paired. Sadly my present car (Peugeot 308) comes with one holder on the
offside for the foglight and one holder on the nearside for the
reversing light,

That seems to be common these days. When I was checking that all the
lights worked on my wife's Matiz, I thought that one reversing and one
fog light had failed, 'til I checked and found no wiring or holder in
the unlit ones.

instead of two of each. Reversing into a drive between
gateposts or hedges at night is very difficult when only the nearside is
illuminated: I find I have to dab the brakes periodically as I am
reversing to illuminate the offside gatepost/hedge with a bit of light,
albeit red light, so I can see it to avoid it.

I have been known to do that.

SteveW