Tony, you are dumber than a stump.



On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:04:04 -0800, "Tony Berlin"
wrote:

It's obviously not a dead short numb nuts or the damn thing wouldn't provide
performance at all, if it's burning or heating insulation on the wires then
it's running at excessive current which would be checked with an AMMETER, I
certainly do not require either meter selection or use tutorials from
someone who cannot even correctly read a frikkin' post. What exactly, Mr.
Turtle do you believe in all those years of amassing this experience that
you seem so proud of that the alpha designation of C-S-R mean when applied
to a compressor?
"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Tony Berlin" wrote in message
. ..

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Keith Reding" wrote in message
link.net...
I thought I would get my York central AC unit repaired well before
summer
hits. The unit is about 9 years old. Last year, the unit stopped
cooling
but the fan still ran fine. The repair guy look at it and the wires
going
from the compressor area to the capicator had melted and stopped
working.
The repair guy replaced the wires and the capicator. A few months
later
it
happened again. A different repair from another company installed a
heavy
duty wiring kit and the unit worked again for a few months then
stopped
when
the wires melted again.

Obviously the unit is pushing too much current through these wires.
A
friend said that it might have a starter relay on top of the
compression
that is not shutting off after the compresser is started. I have
not
taken
it apart to look.

Does this sound correct? I don't understand why the repair guys
wouldn't
know this? Any other suggestions on the cause of the problem?

Thanks,

Keith

This is Turtle.

First here, If the wires [ like the whole length is melting ] is
melted.
You
have these things wrong with it. You have too big of a breaker to your
condenser unit or have to reset the breaker every hour or so, The wire
kit
he put on it is too small, and You have a shorted out compressor
somewhat.
If everything is installed correctly. You can't melt the wires.

There is no such thing as a shorted out compressor, somewhat. It's
either
shorted out or it is not.

This is Turtle.

Hummmmmm , You must not have checked too many compressor lately have you.
The test to check for a shorted or internal short from one pole to the
other
is to use a OHM meter and see if you have a path to gound first and then
read each of the terminal to the other to see if you have the correct
ohm's
throught each. You read from R to S and get the ohm reading and then read
from R to C and S to C and add the two together and you should get the ohm
reading you got by reading R to S. If they don't match you have one
winding
touching the other some where in side the motor it'self. They can still
run
with a bleed over. Now for a simple explained condition of this is when
you
hear a tech say That compressor is just high amping too much or just
pulling
too many amps. This is what he is telling you here. A short out compressor
does not have to be to ground and can be a short from one winding to the
other and when I say somewhat. This is what I'm speaking of.
There is a reply below here too.


Keith the correct answer to your question, or at least as correct as any
observation can be using the information available and considering this
is
as I always say the internet. Each of the three wires on your compressor
represents it's own respective winding in the compressor. Each, when
excessive current draw is present, indicate to a competent (dare I say
that
word here), technician the correct path to follow with respect to
troubleshooting. So in order to even begin to remotely guess at the
problem
one would need the information specific to which wire is carring
excessive
current. Even though they all may indicate excessive current, simply due
to
the proximity of one to the other, there is one that is the actual
carring
the excessive current. With that being said, the first thing a service
tech
would do is use an Amprobe to determine the actual draw in each
conductor,
I
further suspect that your friends assesment is incorrect, if what he
indicated to you were true, you would get zero run time out of the
compressor, it would quickly overheat and cut out on an embedded thermal
overload-quickly, not a few days, few weeks or few months. There would
also
be other indicative attributes that you have not mentioned.Since from
what
I
read the most educated observation that can be concluded is that the
problem
is associated with the run winding, assuming the capacitor that your are
referring to is in fact the run capacitor and not the start capacitor.
There
are a multitude of factors that can contribute to issues with the run
winding in the compressor. To begin with the run cap itself can be
defective, has anyone tested or replaced it?

You are saying here that the problem may lie with the run winding because
the run capasitor or maybe the start capasitor maybe defective. I maybe
catching or reading you wrong here by you saying the run capasitor or the
start capasitor is in the run winding circuit in some way. I can't
remember
here , is the run capasitor in the run winding ? Clear this up for me.



A dirty condenser coil will
increase the current draw on both the run and common windings in the
compressor,

Your saying the amps will go up on the Run winding and the Common winding.
I
have never heard of a common winding on single phase compressors in my 40
something years in the business. They have a Common winding on 3 phase
stuff
but not on single phase stuff. Clear this up for me.



has the coil been cleaned thorughly since the issues originally
occured. For the same reason that a dirty coil can cause it, so to can a
condenser fan that is not performing to design requirements, if enough
heat
is not being rejected at the condenser because of dirt or a bad or
faulty
fan it will be indicated in the compressor current draw.

If the condenser fan motor is too slow / wrong blade / wrong R.P.M. / or
just not moving enough air throught the condenser and causing the
compressor
to over amp. You will see a 90 to 100 psi suction and a 400 to 500 psi
head
pressure on the freon system. Then you say the amp will go up to enough to
burn the wires off the compressor. If the amperage goes above the rated
limit of the compressor more than 5 minutes. The compressor will cut out
on
high temp or high amps. If the amperage goes up enough to melt the wires
to
the compressor the service breaker or the internal overload will trip and
cut it off. I just can't see the amperage staying above 60 to 90 amps for
very long at all with out something cutting it off. One other thing here.
If
the amperage goes above the rating limit of the compressor more than 5
minutes it will turn off for 2 to 4 hour while it cools off. Clear this up
for me.




Oversizing wires,
if that is in fact what the latter contractor did, is not only bad
practice
and stupid it is also dangerous. The wiring within the equipment is the
size
(AWG), that it is for a reason.

You say by using a larger compressor wire kit is Stupid and is also
Dangerous. You also said the wire to the compressor is designed to be a
exact size [AWG] and you should not go up on it. I just don't see any
danger
in upping the wire size kit to the compressor unless your using the wires
as
a fuse and will burn off at a high amp rate. I alway just put a breaker on
the whole condenser and use it and not the compressor wires as a fuse
link.
Clear this up for me.


And finally, even though it would be
premature, provided the equipment is properly maintained, the fault may
in
fact be a defective compressor, it certainly would not be unheard of. I
would contact a competent service company that uses meters to determine
cause.

Now this I agree with finally.

TURTLE



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