On Friday, August 3, 2018 at 4:02:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
But you can't even do your parlor trick now because the ground on the
scope would be connected to 120v and kaboom.
Well that's only because you created a bizarre theoretical situation,
so a common scope that's grounded can't be used. But you can use
a scope that has differential inputs. And I'd again connect it
between the designated SYSTEM NEUTRAL and plot the two hots and
again I'd see two sine waves out of phase by 180. You're the one trying
to perform the parlor trick by not looking at the two 120V voltage
source as they exist and are designed to be used, with the SHARED
NEUTRAL. The shared neutral is the obvious reference point.
There is no "common scope" that isn't grounded.
Certainly you can cut off the ground pin but the case of the scope
will be at 120v in this scenario.
Sigh.....
https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscop...-4444-overview
Who cares what the signal looks like there anyway?
Electrical engineers analyzing what's there, as I have done consistently
from the start. So did the elect eng prof in his IEEE paper.
This is quite clearly a single phase source that is 120 and 240 above
ground yet it is wired exactly the same way.
The only thing I did was move where I land the MBJ.
And that is why there are still two phases coming from that center
tapped transformer that are 180 out of phase with each other.
You haven't changed what's there or how it works, only what's
connected to earth.
Not really. It is a single phase that starts 0-120 and continues
120-240.
The reality is the current flow is exactly the same but it eliminates
that confusion about one being opposite of the other.
The voltage on one hot is the opposite of the voltage on the other hot
with respect to the neutral. We also call that 180 deg phase difference.
And it works whether the TWO 120V voltage sources are from two coils
on a transformer, directly from a generator, or synthesized completely
electronically from a battery. It's their phase relationship, voltage
and current capacity that completely define them, not how they were
created. The electrons don't care, the appliances don't care.
It is just easier
to see that in any given instant current is flowing anywhere in the
circuit in exactly the same direction.
If I don't use the center tap to supply 120v loads towards L2
it is actually not a bad way to do things because it would allow
single pole breakers everywhere, That will be important when they
expand GFCI/AFCI to the 240v circuits,
Say what? If you only have 120V loads on one side of the transformer
then you only have half the total rated power too. So, sure if you're
willing to give up half the power, give up having 240, you can do that.
Not really an issue since most of the load in an "all electric" house
is 240v.
Well, it would be a major change to the specification of the service,
cutting the power available at 120V in half. How much that matters
depends entirely on what all you're powering. Most houses, I would
agree they don't have enough 120V loads for it to matter.
That became very apparent to me when I was running on a
generator.
I did not turn off any 120v breakers and the load was still
insignificant. I couldn't use many of the 240v loads, even with the
120 breakers off (no dryer, no water heater, no oven, no A/C and only
one burner at a time on the cook top )
In that arrangement 240 is right there too, on a single pole breaker
and single pole switching.
Bod has that in his house right now as does most of the non, North
American world.
I could draw how you would hook
up an existing panel that way if you haven't figured it out by now.
At the end of the day, landing the neutral on the center tap was just
an arbitrary decision by Westinghouse to allay some of the fears of
his "killer" AC.
OMG. Having a center tap neutral isn't arbitrary, it's essential to
having 240v and 120v
available. It creates TWO 120V voltage sources that are 180 deg out
of phase with each other, or of alternate polarity, same thing.
Without that, you can't do it. It's not some accident.
The center tap is necessary but not grounding it.
Why are we even talking about what gets grounded? I didn't bring it
up, you did. You wanted to earth one end of the transformer instead
of the center.
You still refuse to take the simple circuits 101 quiz because you can't
explain the obvious contradictions where your argument quickly falls apart:
I took your little quiz. Read the notes
I'll be looking for it.