trader_4
Tue, 20
Feb 2018 00:15:41 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Thu,
15 Feb 2018 12:57:54 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Why would you ever connect the two wires period? YOU are the
one that started talking about connecting the two wires
together. The OP clearly stated what they were talking about.
They were proposing to connect the 240V load between the two
circuits that exist on opposite legs.

The OP mentioned 'combining' them...


The "combining them" is taking the two separate 120V hots that are
in the house now on circuits that are on different legs and
bringing them into a new 240V receptacle. From all that they
posted, that's what they proposed to do. And it will work, except
you can't do it code compliant because not all the conductors for
the circuit would be in the same cable.

Hmm. I wonder if you'd still be in code violation if you opted to use
pvc or perhaps, conduit depending on install location, and ran
individual wires inside of it? For all the hassle though, it would
probably be simpler to pull a new circuit... assuming the panel has
the required room available.

I agree that last sentence is confusing because they say they want
to combine the two 120V legs to one 240v leg. Reword that to say
I will combine the hots from two 120v legs to one 240V receptacle.

It could be a simple terminology issue on their part, or, they really
don't understand the concepts involved. As a precaution against
someone doing what they literally wrote, I commented about arcing.

You have to consider the fact that somebody out there might think you
can combine those legs via parallel or series and double the voltage
or amperage on a single live wire. Obviously, for reasons that should
be obvious, you cannot...





MID:
I bought two mahjong machines in China to use in the US but I
forgot they use 220 over there. So I want to install a US 220V
20A female receptor by using two legs of 110V 15A circuits and
mounting a box next to one of my 110v outlets. That done I want
to convert that over to 220V, neutral, & ground to run my
machines.

The cord into the machine has "L" "N" and "gnd". I want to
combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg.

*** end paste

They can't combine the two 120volt legs into a single leg as they
wrote they wanted, simply by connecting the two legs to each
other.

They never said they were going to simply connect them, they
talked about installing and wiring up a new 240V receptacle
powered off of two hots on separate legs. That's how you get
240V.

You don't need to write to me as if you're an adult correcting a
child, Trader. If I was fresh out of college with only classroom
based knowledge and no field experience and/or it was my first day on
the job as a greenhorn helper or something, sure; but that's not the
case here so it's not necessary. Residential wiring isn't ****, most
commercial wiring isn't complicated either. Something which interests
me, but, doesn't present any real challenge are PLC motor controls.
If I had no prior programming/coding experience in the real world
using various HLL languages as well as raw machine code and/or
assembler, it might be more challenging, but, that's not the case for
me.

As you well know, it's certainly possible to get 240volts (or more)
on a single hot/live wire, but, it's not done by literally connecting
the legs to each other in a parallel or series manner. That's all I
was commenting about when I wrote of arcing. Based on the thread,
another poster noticed the wording issue with the OPs post and also
warned against a short circuit condition should the OP actually do
what they wrote they wanted to do without using a converter, as the
OP already said they didn't want to go that route.

"I want to combine the two 110 legs to one 220 leg." is what the OP
wrote.

Instead of letting the OP know you can't do what they literally wrote
and suggesting one proper way of getting the voltage they wanted, you
opted to ignore? that section and provide one proper way of getting
the voltage they wanted, but, not via a single hot wire as they
originally wrote about.

The manufacturer who wired it for L,N,G 220volt/50hz

And they can provide it with 240V 60Hz. The 240V goes to the
machine between the L and N terminals.

I'm well aware of how to get 240volts here, thanks. Once again,
you're trying to talk down to me. I see no point in this. I haven't
been intentionally disrespecting you in such a manner.





Three,
neutral is now a hot wire. The direction of current flow does
matter with some things. The internal wiring would tell the
tale, though.

No, the neutral is not a hot wire, it's still a neutral. It
becomes a shared neutral or Edison circuit.

It's not going to be used for the device the OP wants to connect.


Why not?

It doesn't have L1,L2, neutral and ground. It has one incoming live
wire terminal, one neutral and one ground. Since we're going to use
it's neutral terminal as the other incoming live wire connection
point to get the 240volts we want, we won't be making use of any
neutral wires coming from the panel or another circuit. We'll be
using two hots and a ground, instead. Are you intentionally being
obtuse?

The device will have two hots and a ground. As the device has
line, neutral, and ground connections intended for connection to
an electrical system that's different than ours. On the intended
electrical system, they get 220volts 50hz/ac on a single hot
wire, where as we get 120volts 60hz/ac on a residential systems
hot wire. We use two hot wires to get 240volts with residential,
they don't.

What you fail to grasp is that the machine doesn't care exactly
how the 240V is derived. All it cares is that 240V AC appears
between it's line and neutral terminal. If you do what the
poster proposed, you get 240V.

I haven't failed to grasp anything, actually. I've even picked up on
your attitude. If I did what the poster literally wrote, I'd have
a 240volt arc flash.

We seem to have a miscommunication here. I was writing about the
mahjong table device, specifically. I wasn't writing about any
existing circuit taps, edison circuits, etc.


But the whole question posed involved using two existing circuits,
combining them to get 240V to use with the mahjong machine.

It also spoke of combining them in the sense of wanting 240volts on a
single hot wire, instead of via two hot wires as it is in our system.
The OP actually presented several questions/inquiries in his/her
post. Along with a little information concerning the device they
intended to connect and why they wanted to provide it the higher
voltage.

I don't know that his table is using one of those motors
specifically, but, it's possible it is. And, it's also possible
whatever other electrical components are present are also okay
with 110volts at 60hz. If it were my table, i'd look into it
before I went and ran another circuit to feed it. It could be
nothing more than attaching a standard american 3 prong power
cord to it and plugging it into a normal 120volt outlet here.


That's possible, depending on what's there.

Ayep. Like I said though, if it were mine, I'd take the time required
to have a looksee under the hood for options before I took the time
and effort to run a circuit to feed it. Unless I'm really concerned
about the marginal power bill savings I'd acquire if I did provide it
240volt instead of 120 (assuming it could use either).

Like
you'd expect to see in commercial lighting and such here in
the states. 208/277 (at 60hz) etc on a single phase hot wire.
As in: 208/277, etc, line to neutral. Not line to line, as
you're suggesting they reconfigure it to be.

Nonsense.

What specifically is nonsense?

It's all irrelevant to the application at hand.

How so? If anything, it's an example of what the OP actually wanted
in practical use.

The table has a single L, n, and
ground connection. In order to give it 240volts here from a
residential power source without using a converter is by
connecting our second hot leg to it's neutral. Line to line is
what your suggestion would become.






I'd be surprised if you were unaware of various electrical
voltages available via a single hot wire vs two in the states.

Again back to the one wire.

Ayep. What part of that confuses you so much?

You put 240V into that machine across two wires. Always two wires.

Wasn't disputing the need for two wires, regardless of voltage. My
entire comment concerning it was the fact that both aren't hot wires
in the configuration it's originally setup for. Infact, it's
originaly configuration is closer to our commercial wiring
configurations than our residential ones. Aside from a difference in
voltage and cycles.

And note that I said you can't use the existing circuits and make
it code compliant, so they instead can run a new 240V circuit.
Several other people recommended that too. Hire an electrician,
run a new 240V circuit. According to you, that can't work either,
is that correct?

What's according to me, exactly?


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