On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 10:16:56 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 17:14:36 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 12 February 2018 22:58:15 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:17:04 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Right, direct Brexiteer challenge, just to probe how lost you aren't?

Q1. What things did you vote for when ticking the 'Leave' box?

Q2. Of the things you think you voted for, how many of them do you
think you will get?

Q3. Of the things you think you are going to get, how 'hard / soft' do
you think they will be (were 10=very hard).

Q4. If you get the softest of all the things you think you voted for,
would that still make leaving a no brainer?


I didn't expect to but I don't mind answering those.

Ok, thank you.

1. Government by people who depend on our vote.

Ok So this is the 'Un elected bureaucrats in Brussels' one.

1a) Have you actually suffered anything directly / personally because
of this arrangement or is it just a principal thing?

Freedom from paying the EU an ever increasing fortune.

1b) In turn for not getting a lot of it back and other 'perks' of
membership?

There may well be other benefits too, but those are the big 2.

Ok, thanks.

2. Both.

Ok. So, you are willing to forego all the benefits (and even the
Brexiteers admit there are some) for those two alone?

3. You forgot to define/explain/state clearly what you meant

Ok, I thought I had. From your previous answers I'm guessing you would
prefer a 'hard Brexit' and so your answer would be 10 and 10. eg, You
would expect a complete disconnection from EU rules affecting us at
all and not having to pay a penny into the EU from the point we leave?

4. ditto

Again, I thought it was pretty straightforward ... Ok, so let's say
you don't get exactly what you wanted re us having to abide by ANY EU
rules post Brexit ... at what point (if any) would you consider the
risk might outweigh the gain (as perceived by you)?

eg. Let's say we are currently obliged to 1000 EU controlled laws and
as a result of us leaving the EU we are still effectively beholden to
100 EU controlled laws (because of some deal). Would you consider that
a net gain, compared with all the benefits that we will also lose by
leaving (baby out with bath water sorta thing)?

Cheers, T i m

I'm sure you mean well but we both know you're not going to engage in a reasoned discussion on this one.

sigh

So what are you saying now ... I've got you in a dead end, you have no
way out and so feel the need to make that statement? ;-(

They were honest and real points that I would be interested to hear
your answers to. If *you* don't have them then that's not my fault.

See, I'm still trying to understand how you might differentiate
between what you are doing just because of your beliefs or hunches (no
problem with that *if* it only affected you and yours).

Maybe you don't and are just doing what you do because of a principal
(which is what it looks like so far) or that you have fully thought it
trough and are still happy to go ahead, even if you only get a
fraction of what you assume (or hope) will be the outcome of the deal
that hasn't been agreed yet?

Like, the other day a good friend offered us quite a nice car that was
one of his reles that had passed away.

At the first thought I could have said yes and possibly found a home
for it in our family. *Except* whilst it was newer than anything we
already had, after some research it turned out to be quite expensive
to tax and insure and didn't have a particularly good reputation for
ride or reliability. I didn't feel it was in the sprit of the offer to
take it off him just to sell, so I sad 'thanks very much but no
thanks' and he gave it to someone else.

My point with the above is *everything* has a cause and effect and I'd
like to learn that you have researched all the effects of your EU
Leave wishes coming true and if there is a point at which they would
be so diluted that even you would concede they would do more harm than
good?

Cheers, T i m

I see that once again you have been unable to understand the situation or be particularly sensible.


NT