On 03/02/2018 10:53, FMurtz wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, 2 February 2018 19:40:10 UTC, Archibald Tarquin
BlenkinsoppÂ* wrote:
On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 19:31:14 +0000, Adrian Brentnall
wrote:
On 02/02/2018 18:43, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 2 February 2018 16:41:24 UTC, Adrian BrentnallÂ* wrote:
On 02/02/2018 14:18, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 2 February 2018 10:06:44 UTC, Adrian BrentnallÂ* wrote:
On 02/02/2018 09:26, Robert wrote:
On 02/02/2018 08:34, Robin wrote:
On 02/02/2018 08:05, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Hi All
In another life I used to be involved with PAT testing /
electrical
safety testing & quality management on telecoms equipment - so I
understand a bit about electrical safety testing.

Nowadays, I make stained-glass. One of the things I make is a
stained-glass lamp - consisting of a 3-sided or 4-sided 'shade',
mounted on a timber base.
Illumination is using a mains LED or CFL bulb, in a brass
bayonet
socket.
The mains lead is bought in as a new, ready-made, CE-marked
assembly,
with a switch, moulded-on plug and ferrule ends - which I
wire into
the screw terminals in the bayonet socket. There's a cable
clamp on
the mains lead where it leaves the timber base.

I've been selling these for a while - no problem.
I spoke to a potential retailer this afternoon (they're part
of an
electrical wholesaler) who said that he wouldn't be able to sell
these lamps because 'They would need PAT testing, first'

So - anybody out there know if this it true or not?

Short of connecting the L, N, E into the wrong terminals on the
bayonet socket (which would be noticed by me on 'final test'
as the
bulb wouldn't light), I can't imagine a failure-mode that
would make
the lamp unsafe.

I can (if necessary) buy a PAT tester, test each lamp and
stick the
sticker on... but is it required?

Any ideas, please?
The country is Ireland, but I'm guessing that the same
regulations
apply in the UK as well...
thanks


Impossible to prove a negative but I'm fairly confident
there's no
legislation in the UK requiring a PAT test.Â* Certainly never
seen them
on other "craft" lamps. I suspect you have met one of the many
varieties of non-tariff trade barrier - of the genus "it's not
a legal
requirement but we won't sell it without one"

Is there no trade body of lamp makers which might know? The
Dublin
equivalent of the Worshipful Company of Lightmongers??

PS
Labels? I assume the CE & plug are labelled when supplied but
thought
maximum wattage also required.


As they are new and being placed on the Market dont they have
to meet
the relevant Safety Standard and have a CE mark applied.

Well - that's the question.
If the components (the lead and the bulbholder) are themselves
approved,
I'd always worked on the assumption that the whole thing was
therefore
approved, given that it was assembled by somebody who knew one
end of a
screwdriver from the other, and that the final test (plug it in,
switch
it on) would only 'pass' if the wiring was done correctly.
I could, of course, be wrong g

PAT testing is not legally required for new goods. A safety
assessment & CE declaration is for a lot of items.

Yes - that seems to be where this is heading..


The approvals cover what is supplied to you, not what you
manufacture. You should go through the CE assessment process, in
which you would address possible issues such as electrical
safety, mechanical stability, flammability, suitability for
various environments, toxicity of materials etc. With that done
you may affix a CE sticker and sell it.

Just-about do-able, I suppose


A retailer can of course place any conditions they like on their
purchases from you.

I think, in this particular person's case, it's a matter of 'got
out of
the wrong side of the bed this morning...' g

Â*Â*Â* They may regadr a PAT test as an adequate substitute for your
legal
duties, though legally it would not be complaint with CE
requirements. I
hear informally that CE declarations are often abused.

The first obvious question that springs to mind is are your lamps
class I or II? And are your shades lead soldered?

Yes - lots of lead solder used in the construction of the lampshade.
"You are recommended not to chew this lampshade....."

As to the class I vs Class II - I did check the definitions, and
I'm not
sure. Three-core mains cable, brass bayonet lampholder (earthed)
screwed
to wooden lamp-base. Stained-glass shade, pegged and glued into
wooden
lamp-base. I'm guessing Class I ?

I'm fairly sure leaded solder is not permitted under ROHS. If the
bulbholder is earthed the luminaire is class I, if compliant.
Someone else can comment on the shade.



In that case I'd better shut up shop! g
I would hope that there's a distinction between the use of
leaded/unleaded solder in electronics, and leaded solder in
traditionally-made craft items....

Ignore the idiot.

He trawls the internet for technically oriented jargon but is clueless
as to what it actually means.

The pillock is obviously under the impression that BC fittings have to
be soldered onto.

You could post a thread asking if stained glass is class 1 or 2, but
that would be cruel :-)


Any chance of a link to a photo of your merchandise?

One would be very interested in seeing the subject of the discussion.

Regards

AB


I particularly like the blackberry and some of the fused glass.

I don't know if leaded glass is exempted under RoHS. A quick google
just brought up glass used in electronics. Maybe you don't need to,
but if you do would there be a problem changing from lead & leaded to
unleaded solder for the stained glass shades?

Is this to solder the led cames?Â*Â*

Groan!