On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 04:19:37 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

Telling me to send the items back

I told you to do no such thing. I suggested they may be faulty and you
might raise the issue with the supplier and / or the manufacturer.

Which is what I have done after being able to check all 5 of teh 5 we were given.

Ok, that's a step in the right direction then.


when I don't believe anything is worng

What you *believe* is irrelevant

No it isn't,

Good.

if I believe something is dangerous I need to take it out of action so thinking is important.

Yes, you do ... and it's not the taking it out of action that should
be the big decision but any delays in *not* taking it out of action.

snip

and then we'd have to close the lab resulting in delayed corses and a back log.

Irrelevant. That's possibly like leaving the same insulation tiles on
other buildings like Grenfell because it will make them colder.

Nothing like that at all.

Everything like that mate. *If* something went wrong and you knew
about a potential issue but failed to do anything about it ...


snip

shrug See how much help they 'don't give' if you suggest there could
be a safety issue and therefore a potential threat to life.

which I can only do after I have checked them all.

Even one faulty one could be an issue ... but 'of course' you could
also rest more and I thought you said you already had (because you
kept denying it was likely to be a batch fault as they all acted the
same)?


I asked them a question without buying the product in question myself
and they replied pretty quickly and willing to take it further?

I sent my email this morning as I have now checked them.

Good.


Tested all 5 heaters and they apparently all have exactly the same 'problem' or 'fault' which to me seems unlikely.

There you go again with you blinkers and denial.

It's not denial

Of course it is as you would have done something sooner rather than
arguing with me why there was no need and why you shouldn't?

I'm the one testing these things out, who else has done this.

You said you had a testing guy come in and do it any you were happy he
found them safe?


"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however
improbable, must be the truth".

Yes sherlock.

;-)

But I hadn't eliminated the impossible.

So, what do you know today that you didn't know last week?

snip


for some strange reason yuo say yuo used the email address for sales where as I clicked on the link Log a Technical Query, which is what I have.

You accused me of contacting sales rather than TS. I contacted TS via
the email they offer for TS shrug.

I want to know what consumption a 2KW heater should consume, as indicated by the subject line from teh very first post.

And you didn't know that after measuring it, posting and the fist few
replies?


snip

I'm guessing they haven't had your order number to check that the
person asking for the technical advice has actually bought such from
them etc yet?

quite likely as another form you have to type in yuor account number which I dontl have or rathe rthey weren;t ordered via 'my' account, which is why I was looking for an alternative option other than sales who rarely now technical details but are good at stock levels and pricing and teh like, perhaps this is why they have differnt email addresses

sigh The sales email *is* the contact for TS.


snip

They seem to be safe to use in the teaching lab as they are, so I'm not worried from a H&S POV.

But maybe you should be, until they give you a formal 'all clear' in
any case?

A std
PAT wouldn't test for a (potential) design fault. (I nearly added
'would it' to the end of that but how would you know)?

If the desgn fault that was a saftly issue the PAT test would show it up.

And another thing the PAT test shows is that this heater was tested in fed 2017 this lable is stuck over the previous label so we've had this since at least feb 2016 and as that one is faulty and teh new ones are faulty this indicates that every heater sold since feb 2016 is faulty and no one else has noticed or reported it.

Quite possibly. How many people would plug one into a power meter?


What sort of 'tests' do you think they
would do that could go any way to justifying your poor understanding
of the entire situation?

The test they legally have to do in order for a product to be considered safe.

Quite. And that test took ~2 hours did it (the time it takes for the
rad to overheat)? They monitored the current for over two hours?

Not sure who they are

The guy you think 'tested them'?

I would expect this to be done with the prototype.

Quite and it may have been and then a wiring error crept in ...

snip

Yes, it *might* not be but we don't know yet do we (other than my
opinion and Tech support at CPC etc)?



And NOW I do have just recieved two emails.

I sent mine at 10:07 this morning.

At 11:14 this morning :-
------------------------------------------
David

This is not how the radiator should work, please contact sales to arrange there return.

Regards
CPC Technical
------------------------------------------

As I was busy switching them off and finding their packaging....

at 11:29 this morning :-
------------------------
David

Unfortunately there was confusion over our initial response, the drop in power drain is due to an internal thermostat designed to lower the temperature to ensure the radiator does not overheat.

(Oh, what, with an 'overtemp stat', who would have thought! Lets hope
it still can't overheat when a student forgets they have left their
coat draped over it ...).

We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Regards
CPC Technical
-------------------------


_______________________________________________ _

So for me this is now closed and I can re-install the heaters.

Even if that isn't actually the whole story at least you now have
something to cover your back etc.

Now you just need to get them to answer your first question re why
they aren't actually a 2kW heater. ;-)

snip

I did know why they are only 1.6KW.

Not at the beginning you didn't or presumably you wouldn't have asked
here?

Well I wasn't asking why they were 1.6KW but why they were 700W.

Ok.


snip

You don't think there is a problem so why are you reporting one?

you're the one that there's a problem.

Eh?

As I suggested from the evidence of haing a heater that exibited this fault for 2 years so this 'fault'; had been in all these heaters sold over the last 2 years unlikely.

But not impossible (and this is new information to us remember).


I don't think there is.

But we have already seen just how little you actually understand about
any of this by the amount of time people who do know have spent
correcting and re-explaining it all to you.

But they've all been wrong.

Oh really! I'm sure they will love to hear you think that.

snip

Which is why I tested them and from the results I got I concluded that rathter than there being a fault they were just cheap heaters, perhaps not up to the spec the datasheet might suggest.

But in doing said tests you revealed an anomaly that I don't believe
has yet been resolved.

snip

Sounds like a stupid / trolling question then, especially if you
already knew all the answers?

I only klnew because I tested them whereas you just read the lable on the site.

Other than I have tested this exact same thing personally myself?


What would you expect ?

Why do you care, you don't listen to anything else people say?

I will if I think it makes sense, which it hasn't.

And I wonder why that is?

snip

Did you log a technical query', you said sales contacted you.
rememeber.

No, I emailed them a technical question.

emailed who ?

The people they offer for 'Technical questions'?

Them was a about ants, pretyy good IIRC well at the time.

Eh?

Cheers, T i m