On 18/11/2017 16:11, JoeJoe wrote:
On 18/11/2017 15:30, Yellow wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 14:55:23 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 14:32:29 -0000, Yellow
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 09:47:10 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:12:08 -0000, Yellow
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:39:21 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:32:13 -0000, Yellow
wrote:

Thanks for the review and I will try to watch on catch up later.

It is what many of us already know but it still has to be
demonstrated
sometimes, to remind people what is really going on here and I am
particularly interested in your observations about the minimum and
living wage and agree that for youngsters with no work skills in
their
first employment, it is too high. As are benefits.

Or maybe the pay rates for skilled people is too low?Â* If
benefits are
really too high this creates a poverty trap if wages are low.
However
I very much doubt that benefits are 'generous' now, if they ever
were.

Define "generous". To me, if you can live on it long term without the
need to ever work then it is "generous".

What if you can't live off it or a job paying minimum wage?

We are discussing unemployment benefits not the minimum wage, and the
solution there is to get a job - obviously.

We are discussing both.

You might have been, but I was discussing unemployment benefits in the
posts you replied to. But whatever. :-)


The minimum wage and unemployment benefits
are linked and cannot be considered in isolation.Â* Obviously there
should be incentives to work, but that means work should pay well, not
that benefits should be squeezed so that people cannot manage.

The problem we have, which I am sure you recognise, is that some
unemployed people would rather just take the benefits if the were enough
to live on comfortably in the longer term.

So it is a balance.

And I believe that is the goal of Universal Credit (if they can ever get
it right!) to improve the transition into work by letting people lose
their benefits at a slower rate.


But if you are in work and decide you want a higher standard of living,
whatever your income, the answer is obviously to earn more.

Not easy for most.Â* I'm sure (almost) everyone wants a higher standard
of living but there aren't an unlimited amount of better paid jobs
available.

Always an "ah but" when this is discussed.

Benefits are too low - so get a job - but jobs do not pay enough - so
work more hours or train for a better job - but there aren't enough
better jobs....

Except there are. There is a skills shortage in lots of areas but people
have to start somewhere by getting off benefits and taking a job! And
from there you can progress. But if you stay unemployed and on benefits
you will never progress, never get a better paid job, ever.

My mate left the police last year after 30 years. Sat at home and lived
off his pension for 6 months and got more and more depressed.

Picked himself up, went to college for 6 months to train as a heating
engineer (as in Gas Safe), had plenty of job offers when he finished,
and now earns a very decent wage.

The proof that benefits are too high is that there are young and healthy
people who are perfectly comfortable living off them.

You'll wind up a few of the usual suspects with that...!