On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:36:11 -0000, tim...
wrote:

from last night, still on catch up (I guess)

Didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know TBH

1) Benefits on offer to the "wont work" are far too generous if an
unemployed person can say "I wouldn't get out of bed for 7.50 an hour"
and/or "I rather spend the time at home with my girlfriend". We need to
systematically reduce benefits for the fit and healthy the longer they are
on benefits.

2) Employers have far too high an expectation from a minimum wage worker.
The clue is in the word "minimum". Expecting a "self starter who can manage
themselves and produce high quality work with the highest quantity of
output", in an employee straight off the street is unreasonable. If someone
*can* achieve all that then they are a *senior* grade worker and they should
be paid accordingly.

But for the majority, new hires require management *effort* to train themn
in the way to do the job that you need doing, teaching them the tips to get
the job done better/faster that if left to their own devices they will never
discover AND wait several weeks/months (not just a few hours) for them to
get up to speed. You cannot expect the education system to have trained up
school leavers in every single job that might be encountered as a job
seeker, that is the task of *management*. Stop whinging about how the
available hires are lacking in these skills and do your own bloody job
properly, before complaining that someone else can't do theirs properly.

3) The problem in 2 is exacerbated by the minimum wage being too high.
This idea that any/every job should pay a "family living wage" is political
nonsense. Employers must have the scope to pay people in training what they
are worth to the company. And that is never going to be the living wage.
Of course you have to ensure that once they reach the expected ability level
employers do actually reward staff for that, and not just continue to pay
them the in-training "pittance"

4) Why do employers waste so much money on agencies. I have no idea what
margins for this type of casual work are, but most people with recruitment
"skills" wouldn't get out of bed for 50 grand (they'll just go and work for
an employer who pays them more). I understand that genuine casual work
(such as catering at an event) requires agency staff, but if you have an
ongoing requirement for a worker why the **** are you paying the agency
margin week after week. Take the guy(/girl) on permanently and use the
money saved to increase the guy's (girl's) wage when they reach the required
performance level.

Until we solve these (completely self inflicted) problems, things are not
going to improve

Oh and the current crop of school leavers needs to drop "the world owes us a
living" attitude that some of them seem to have.

timmy



Thanks for the review and I will try to watch on catch up later.

It is what many of us already know but it still has to be demonstrated
sometimes, to remind people what is really going on here and I am
particularly interested in your observations about the minimum and
living wage and agree that for youngsters with no work skills in their
first employment, it is too high. As are benefits.

Where I used to work we took on apprentices as well as trainees for non-
engineering roles and to start with they take more than they contribute,
eating in to the time of the skilled people they are working with and
their output of course often required rework. And that is fine, part of
the deal, but if you have to pay them almost as much as you have to pay
skilled folk it becomes less attractive to take on the ones who need to
most initial help.

And of course there is your final comment which is in part of product of
both some politician and most of the media telling young people how hard
done by they are and how good everyone over the age of 30 had it before
them - free running jobs, cheap housing and free education - except it
wasn't like that at all for so many of us.

The problems and issues were not the same, that is for sure, but times
are always tough for some and good for others and to keep being fed this
idea that you are being stolen from when in fact you simply have to make
the most of the opportunities that are there for the taking - the same
as every other generation in the past.

I get particularly ****ed off at the young ones who think that they
should be able to leave home and fall into a job that will pay for a
whole house to themselves, fully furnished, together with new cars,
holidays and nights out. We NEVER had that.

Instead we all have 10th hand cars that we'd help each other to keep
running, we had holidays in Blackpool if at all and would only go to the
pub on pay day. And we *all* lived at home with our parents while we
saved for a house deposit rather than wasting it on rent!

And I haven't even watched the show yet. :-)