On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:38:45 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, 13 November 2017 18:19:52 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:53:25 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Ok, most that I have come across have been then.

Maybe that's their response to you. I don't normally get that.

I can't say I 'normally' get that but just often enough to know that
cats aren't what I would consider to be a good 'companion animal.

so that's often their response to you. It's not their response to me.

It's their response to many people, often including their 'owners'.

Maybe if poorly treated or in pain.

Well, quite possibly but as you admit in a later post, they can also
be very 'touchy', temperamental and unpredictable.

I didn't say that.

You said much of that?

"Cats are famous for their emotional state varying all over the place
quickly." .... which of course is very likely to make them 'very
'touchy', temperamental and unpredictable'.

thank you for confirming I didn't say what you said I did

That's why I didn't put my first reference in direct quotes ... I was
talking of the spirit of what you said that still stands.

Their moods just change much faster than humans,

I wasn't comparing them with humans but most other 'companion
animals'.

do you have a point?

Now you have said that no (depending on how you read your previous
comment).

you always need to pay attention with cats.

I could see how that might be acceptable advice if you were playing
with a tarantula or venomous snake, but they aren't really 'cuddly
pets' you would typically have loose in your house are they?

irrelevant

Not if they are *supposed* to be a 'companion animals' it isn't, it's
the whole point!

snip

Ok ... daughter is also a backup-up dog warden and if dogs (even
loose ones) were as unpredictable as cats, I'm pretty sure she
wouldn't do it.

Few people will handle big cats.

By 'big cats' do you mean 'large domestic type cats' or actual 'big
cats'?

I mean big cats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_cat

Ok. So, did you have a point? I'm not sure how often you get a stray
lion in England (and if you did they would probably get a marksman to
shoot it, not send out the local animal roundup folk!

My point was, even though daughter has had to recover some fairly big
and often abused dogs, she hasn't (so far anyway) has the same
reaction from them as she has from stroking a similar number of cats.

snip

No, 'don't have them as 'companion animals' I think is more
appropriate ... well, unless you give on your own on a farm with 50 of
them etc.

Yet tens of millions of people in the uk get along just fine with domestic cats.

Yes, it sounds like 'getting along' is the best that most can hope for
.... not the ideal relationship for / with a 'companion animal' though
eh?

Do you have any other stupid points to make?

Sorry if I touched a nerve or confused you mate. ;-(

Cats pay much more attention to things than people, and expect us to do likewise.

*Expect us* ... tail wagging the cat again methinks!

Fail to and people don't get along so well with them.

But why do you consider that acceptable ... unless you are willing to
parallel keeping cats along with keeping snakes or tarantula?

I accept that you have no idea

No, I have every idea, I *understand* that many people who 'have cats'
really just provide bed and breakfast for them and aren't looking for
a true 'companion animal'. Many people who do this don't care that
*their* pet isn't in *their* house or garden half the day and night or
where it's crapping or what it's damaging or killing. And that's fine
.... and they could probably be equally happy with a pigeon or feeding
a local fox or badger. I would feel guilty if any pet of mine was
doing that.

How often do you 'go out' with your cat, go on holiday with your cat,
go on long walks with your cat, take your cat down the pub or on the
train or ferry etc? How much of a 'companion' is it when you are doing
those things? I'm not saying that you have to take your pet to such
places, just that if you have a cat or parrot you probably wouldn't
want to.

Why anyone would expect otherwise I'm not sure.

*Because*, these are supposed to be *companion animals* and so I
wouldn't *expect* it to bite or scratch me under *any* (non
threatening) circumstances.


They're gentle when they bite/scratch, unless you really **** them off.

Oh I'm sure they are (considering etc), just that it's not something
anyone should have to put up with from a 'companion animal'. Now if it
was wild and you just threw it some food now and again I would
understand it all.

I accept that you don't understand it all

Like I said, I understand it all, it is you who is confused what 'a
Pet' actually means. But hey, don't take my word for it, read
Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet

"A pet or companion animal is an animal kept primarily for a person's
company, protection, or entertainment ..."

Ok, how about this, if you don't call a cat 'a pet' in the same way
say a dog would be to most, I'll leave you to your relationship with
your semi wild animal.

It's almost always in response to people failing to pay attention.

Now if that were a dog and it happened to do the same when actually
harassed by a child (poking it's fingers in it's eyes, or climbing on
it etc) then there would be cries to have the animal destroyed because
it would be considered 'unpredictable' or 'untrustworthy' etc?

not from me, but I'm aware that some people think all animals should have unlimited tolerance of abuse from humans.

Quite, but my point wasn't about abusing anything, it was about the
animals reaction, even when being petted (and you have confirmed this
to be the truth).


A cat does it just because you haven't realised it only wanted you
stroking it for five minutes not six, and that's considered perfectly
reasonable shrug? ;-)

Maybe the next time one jumps onto my lap I'll wait till it goes to
sleep then throw it off because *I* have just decided I've had enough?

Your choice.

Except, much as though I would like to, I wouldn't, unless it took it
too far first. The point was that I really shouldn't need to should I?

Now't as strange as folk!

Very true

When we took the rabbit to the vets last night there were two other
animals there. A puppy pit bull thing that was just on a lead and as
soppy as anything (it loved having it's back scratched and for as long
as I continued doing it) ... our rabbit, out in daughters arms and
just watching what was going on (then went to sleep as she stroked it)
and a cat-in-a-box that probably couldn't be let out as it might run
away and they would never get it back? I wonder how it might react if
I went up and stroked it? What odds would you put on the outcome?

Cheers, T i m