It's not recessed, the medicine chest. It's stuck on the wall. Again, I do
NOT have access to the wiring other than at the points where they actually
exit the wall, at the switch and at the fixture. The light fixture is above
the medicine chest, but removing the chest will reveal nothing. It's just
attached to the wall.

No I'm not colorblind, no I'm not stupid. This wiring has not been touched
since this building was first put up in 1950. So no, it's not up to current
codes, standards, etc.

Sorry but I'm just trying to be clear. I really was just asking a question,
and so far I've seen curses tossed towards each other, suggestions that have
nothing to do with my original post, etc.

Thanks for the help.

HA HA Budys Here wrote:
Subject: Problem with replacing a bathroom light switch
From: Jim Thompson lid
Date: 11/9/2003 8:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2003 01:20:21 GMT, (HA HA Budys Here)
wrote:

From: Jim Thompson lid


On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:10:31 GMT, "Sparky"
wrote:

2 wires connected at the switch. Red and black. There's a
second red wire connected to a screw in the back of the switch's
box; I'm assuming that's ground.

I haven't opened the fixture, since it's been painted to the wall
several times it'll be quite a project. If it's important
though, I will.

Thanks again.

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
If you open the fixture how many wires do you see? Colors?
Color of wires at switch?

...Jim Thompson
[snip]

Hmmmm! Sounds like a 3-way switch. Is there another switch
location which controls the fixture?

To get the fixture loose run a penknife around the edge until you
cut thru the paint.

If you're in luck power will have been brought directly to the
fixture *then* to the switch. (Which, IIRC, is code?)

...Jim Thompson
--
James E.Thompson, P.E.

You engineers are weird. "If you're in luck power will have been
brought directly to the fixture*then* to the switch. (Which, IIRC,
is code?)"

Actually, he's *si+ outta luck. IF he was truly lucky, power would
have been brought directly to the switch *first*, then continued on
in a 2-wire (with ground) cable to the light. That way, future
conversion would have been simpler - the feed, neutral, and
switchleg would all be exactly where they're needed.

Why, if I may ask, would you think it advantageous, if not code (It
isn't BTW, codes are written for a safe and usuable electrical
system, not future add-ons or expansions) to have power at the
fixture first? That almost always results in the switch having only
the feed and switchleg, and no neutral. Now impossible to have a
receptacle at the switch location. Sounds like this building is
very old.

AT any rate, back to the OP's issue...

First, it's very odd to have 2 reds and a black wire within 1
cable. 2 wire cable (with ground, or the sheath if the cable is BX
armored) is always black & white, with a bare copper ground wire,
(or the sheath if the cable is BX armored) You should only find red
in a 3-wire cable - black, white & red, and a bare copper
ground.(Or the sheath if the cable is BX armored)

Are you absolutely certian there's no white wire in the switch box?




Maybe he's color-blind ?:-)

I'm hoping that is the case, or at least somehow this cable's
insulation has faded or somehow become distinctly different over
time. It has happened, as much of the "blue" cloth-insulated 500KcMil
in Rockerfeller center has turned green. (Really scares the pants off
the apprentices)


If power were brought to the fixture, then a loop-wired switch link,
he'd have power available *at the fixture* for an *always-on*
receptacle.

...Jim Thompson

The issue I'd have with that solution is that those snap-in fixture
outlets were never meant to handle modern loads such as 1500w -
1800-w hair dryers. They're almost always connected to #18 awg.
fixture leads.

Another issue is it wouldn't be GFCI protected, and is not only in the
bathroom, but directly over the sink. I can just picture this old
bathroom with what is most likely a pedestal stink, and this on- 24/7
monstrosity of an appliance falling into the sink or toilet.

At any rate, the multiple layers of paint issue aside - it's not too
bad a fix if the medicine chest is recessed, with the light either
incorperated in it or directly above it. Usually, removing the
cabinet exposes the entire wall cavity, and a new cable and proper
GFCI outlet, on full time, can be installed without the need for any
patchwork afterwards.