Subject: Problem with replacing a bathroom light switch
From: Jim Thompson lid
Date: 11/9/2003 8:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2003 01:20:21 GMT, (HA HA Budys Here)
wrote:

From: Jim Thompson lid


On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:10:31 GMT, "Sparky"
wrote:

2 wires connected at the switch. Red and black. There's a second red
wire
connected to a screw in the back of the switch's box; I'm assuming that's
ground.

I haven't opened the fixture, since it's been painted to the wall several
times it'll be quite a project. If it's important though, I will.

Thanks again.

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
If you open the fixture how many wires do you see? Colors? Color of
wires at switch?

...Jim Thompson
[snip]

Hmmmm! Sounds like a 3-way switch. Is there another switch location
which controls the fixture?

To get the fixture loose run a penknife around the edge until you cut
thru the paint.

If you're in luck power will have been brought directly to the fixture
*then* to the switch. (Which, IIRC, is code?)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.

You engineers are weird. "If you're in luck power will have been brought
directly to the fixture*then* to the switch. (Which, IIRC, is code?)"

Actually, he's *si+ outta luck. IF he was truly lucky, power would have been
brought directly to the switch *first*, then continued on in a 2-wire (with
ground) cable to the light. That way, future conversion would have been
simpler
- the feed, neutral, and switchleg would all be exactly where they're
needed.

Why, if I may ask, would you think it advantageous, if not code (It isn't
BTW,
codes are written for a safe and usuable electrical system, not future
add-ons
or expansions) to have power at the fixture first? That almost always
results
in the switch having only the feed and switchleg, and no neutral. Now
impossible to have a receptacle at the switch location. Sounds like this
building is very old.

AT any rate, back to the OP's issue...

First, it's very odd to have 2 reds and a black wire within 1 cable. 2 wire
cable (with ground, or the sheath if the cable is BX armored) is always
black &
white, with a bare copper ground wire, (or the sheath if the cable is BX
armored) You should only find red in a 3-wire cable - black, white & red,
and a
bare copper ground.(Or the sheath if the cable is BX armored)

Are you absolutely certian there's no white wire in the switch box?




Maybe he's color-blind ?:-)

I'm hoping that is the case, or at least somehow this cable's insulation has
faded or somehow become distinctly different over time. It has happened, as
much of the "blue" cloth-insulated 500KcMil in Rockerfeller center has turned
green. (Really scares the pants off the apprentices)


If power were brought to the fixture, then a loop-wired switch link,
he'd have power available *at the fixture* for an *always-on*
receptacle.

...Jim Thompson

The issue I'd have with that solution is that those snap-in fixture outlets
were never meant to handle modern loads such as 1500w - 1800-w hair dryers.
They're almost always connected to #18 awg. fixture leads.

Another issue is it wouldn't be GFCI protected, and is not only in the
bathroom, but directly over the sink. I can just picture this old bathroom with
what is most likely a pedestal stink, and this on- 24/7 monstrosity of an
appliance falling into the sink or toilet.

At any rate, the multiple layers of paint issue aside - it's not too bad a fix
if the medicine chest is recessed, with the light either incorperated in it or
directly above it. Usually, removing the cabinet exposes the entire wall
cavity, and a new cable and proper GFCI outlet, on full time, can be installed
without the need for any patchwork afterwards.