In article , pamela
writes
On 21:30 1 Oct 2017, Steve Walker wrote:

On 01/10/2017 14:36, pamela wrote:
On 10:52 1 Oct 2017, tim... wrote:



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
No the reality is the the EU are a bunch of bullies who
think that by bullying us into terms that are very bad for
us, very good for them we will meekly say "perhaps we
shouldn't leave then" (and then they will turn up the screw
even higher and strip us of our opt outs)

You really need to think this through.

We joined the EU of our own free will. Agreed to all the
rules and regulations, or negotiated an opt out if not to our
taste.

and we have given our notice to leave as required by the rules

and the EU are now trying to re-write these leaving rules to
suit themselves.

Of course that's exactly what they are doing. Did we expect
the EU to apply the rule flexibly such that they were in our
favour? Dream on!

Due to self serving ******s like Farage and his other bully
boys stirring up those who knew no better, 'we' voted to
leave.

Not been thrown out of the club - but said it wasn't for us
anymore.

But now seem to have discovered lots of it was in the
interests of the country as a whole. And like a selfish
toddler want to hang on to what suits us regardless of the
rules of that club.

There will NEED to be a set of future trading rules between us
and the EU after we have left. This is for the benefit of
everyone, EU included.

But the EU seem to think that they don't need to sit down and
discuss this, they got better things to do (apparently).

Don't fret over the EU doing damage to itself. It's quite big
enough to handle that.

FTAOD There is no presumption that the above means that the
end result of the discussion should be specifically beneficial
to the UK [1]. Just that all those little things which NEED
to be sorted out, are sorted out, before the leaving date.

Like any good negotiator, I suspect the EU will make sure those
very things (called "peanuts" in negotiating circles) are not
agreed unless we make significant concessions.

Also, in order to maximise the value to the EU of those
concessions they will delay such discussions until as late as
possible to impress upon the UK that it's staring a loss in the
face. No doubt Brexiteers will squeal.

tim

[1] Except in the sense that it affects a larger portion of
our world trade than it does the EU's world trade, but that is
inevitable - you can't use that fact as a justification for a
country not being able to exercise its right to leave.

Britain has the right to leave the EU and Britain has the right
to bear the consequences of leaving. Meanwhile the EU has the
right not to provide any assistance. It's all part of
realpolitik.

And the fact that the EU would make it as didicult as possible,
so as to discourage others leaving, shows exactly why we need to
leave.

For the most part, the EU was mutually beneficial for those who
were in it. If the UK chooses to leave then it can not complain
that it is missing out on the advantages of being a member.

We're not. The only advantage is the free trade area which we had before
the EU.
If the UK finds it hard to leave then it should have thought twice
about that before deciding to go.

We don't.
No special deals, no benefits without costs is fair enough, but
deliberately preventing debate of things that need to be sorted
out is not.

SteveW

Are we honestly and truly expecting the EU to make an effort to
ensure our exit is as nice, easy and painless as possible?
No because those in charge of the negotiations don't give two hoots
about the well being of the EU citizens.
We
were told my many EU politicians not to expect that. It's time to
stop moaning amd simply accept the situation we have got ourselves
into.
Well you're the one doing all the moaning.
--
bert