On 29-Sep-17 9:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Peter Hill
wrote:

240V 32A for 8 hours is 61KWh. Chevy Bolt EV has 60KWh battery and a
range in excess of 200 miles (/ day). So on high days and holidays you
might want to go a bit further than 200 miles. Then you stop at a
public charger and get a rapid charge in 1/2 hour.

On busy days at Morrisons (or Tesco) there may well be 10 or so cars
filling up at once. How big d'ye expect a charging station to be so
that on a busy day you can just roll up and plug in for 30 mins?

Ultimately every space on M-way services car park should have a rapid
charger but only a certain number could be used at one time. The car
plugs in and driver validates payment, they will have to switch on/off
automatically by FIFO queue and as the charging system knows how many
cars are in the queue can give you the time you have wait. Unlike a
petrol station no one has to be in attendance.
Spot the filling stations. One day instead of 2/4 there will be 20
40/50Kw chargers - 0.8 to 1MW.
https://goo.gl/maps/kY5BaXfkdAk
https://goo.gl/maps/EjCrazfGhHA2
https://goo.gl/maps/jSdunDKUTfz
https://goo.gl/maps/68NiLZoimvE2

A pump is occupied for a few minutes, say 5 once payment is included.
You want to crank that up to 30. So you'll need 6 times as many
charging points as pumps, to service the demand. So 60 charging points
at, as someone upthread (IIRC) mentioned, 6MW each. You're asking the
grid to supply 350MW or so to every supermarket. You really think
that's practical?

6MW each ??? That was based on the notion that 100% of the energy in
fossil fuel propels the car. It was also the demand for 6 min charge
time. I have already destroyed that fake claim.

But just for you I'll do it again in a different way.

6MW is 6000KW, 6 minutes of that will be 600KWh. That is 20 times the
capacity of a 30KWh Nissan Leaf, 10 times the capacity of a 60KW/h Chevy
Bolt / Tesla 3 and 6.6 times the capacity of a 90KW/h Tesla S P90. They
go 100/200/300 miles on a full charge. For you to demand a supply of 6MW
for 6 min means you must have somehow obtained a vehicle that has a
battery pack with a range of 2000 miles! Or you have being spouting FAKE
NEWS and listening to idiots.

A 60KWh battery pack (Bolt/Tesla 3) is good for over 200 miles, about
2/3 the range of a SI car and 1/2 the range of a big smoker. Instead of
filling once every 1 or 2 weeks you will normally fill it daily at home.
60KWh battery can only be charged to 80% on rapid charge and will be
starting from about 20%, so only 36KWh to go in on a rapid charge. That
is 360KW for 6 min charge time. A whole lot less (just 6%) than the
claimed 6MW required for a 6 min charge time but still the load of 120
domestic sockets. With 30 min charge time the demand is 72Kw and at
40min 54Kw, much more achievable.

As a 36Kw fill is good for nearly 2 hours driving an extra 30 min
charging up is not a huge cost in time. And you won't be standing out in
the rain/snow or dancing on a slick of split diesel while it charges up.

How much does that 30 min fill time cost you? Well it actually PAYS you.
EV cost per mile is 1/2 of fossil fuel so while 150 miles costs about
£18 in fuel it costs £9 in electricity (for public charge points, much
less on home charge). The savings you make are effectively EARNING
£18/hour while you charge up. If you ever got your demand for 6 min
charge time you won't be "earning" £180/hour during that 6 min charge.
You would have pay a lot more to have that charge rate and your
"earnings" would have to become a payment.

Rapid chargers are 43Kw or 50Kw with Tesla supercharge running 120Kw.
These charge an EV to 80% in 20-40 min. Tesla S&X take just as long as
the battery pack is 2x the size. Won't be at supermarkets unless they
are very close to M-way junctions or major routes. Tesla can have as
many 10 superchargers on site (1.2MW), while most EV chargers only have
4 at present (0.2MW).

Fast chargers are 7.7Kw single phase or 22Kw three phase (32Amp like
your cooker supply, not a poxy domestic socket). 7.7kW charger will
recharge in 3-5 hours, 22kW charger in 1-2 hours. These you will find at
destinations, hotels, works and yes supermarkets. If there were 50 22Kw
chargers on a supermarket car park the load would be 1.1MW. But who does
400 mile round trip to a supermarket?

Charging points are on the rise and rising fast.
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

There are over 20 rapid 7.7Kw charging points on the car parks of the
firm I work at around Derby. They can be booked for 4 hours at a time.
I'm not sure how many there are at other sites like Bristol. There's a
guy does Bristol to Derby and back at least once a week in a 30KWh Leaf.
He doesn't like paying for the Polarcharge card so has been getting a
*free* (slow) charge from the on-site car hire firm throwing a cable out
the window of the portacabin. Complains that the company won't give him
an EV, so he leaves the company car at home and uses his EV.

The big question is whether they should fit a lot of slow 3Kw chargers
for 8 hour charge time while at work (7.6 hour working day + 30 min
lunch). Then people could commute 60 miles each way in 30KWh EVs. Or 10
miles in PHEV with 5KWh batteries without using a 4 hour rapid charger
space.