On 28/05/2017 19:34, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 28/05/17 05:12, Bill Wright wrote:
On 26/05/2017 22:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Nevertheless Bill, you are suffering from a common complaint,. you think
that the little you do know is all there is to know.

That's exactly what you do all the time. You're notorious for it.

Those of us who
have done this for a living and studied it at university know it aint
that simple.

Oh **** me! 'I've been to Yooni so I know everything, and I certainly
know more than those guys in overalls down there on the site!' How many
times have I encountered this blinkered, arrogant attitude? Architects
who won't listen to the tradesmen being a good example.

Fact is, a guy who's spent his life making things from wood knows a damn
sight more about how to make a gate that than someone who thinks they
know everything because they're been to Yooni.

I discussed this issue with two people. One was a bloke who worked all
his life in joinery, first building wooden wagons and later in a
workshop turning out various wooden products. The other was a woman who
runs a very successful business building furniture and fitting out up-
market new houses with doors etc. Both thought the idea of making a gate
or door with the brace the wrong was round was such an elementary
mistake they wondered if I was joking. So don't give me your high and
mighty Yooni ********. I've been putting up with that ****e all my
working life and it won't wash.

Bill
yu remind me of the plumber who came to connect up my UNVENTED hot water
tank

"In the loft: great place to put it mate, it will increase your water
pressure for the showers"

He, too, did plumbing for a living.

You cling to your beliefs and myths in the face of the simple evidence
that no cantilevered structure can exist without at least one joint in
tension.

you insistence that it mustn't be the diagonal joint is simply arbitrary
and bizarre

Looking at how a wooden gate is made:

1. Given that you need good joints at all four corners, it is not hard
to make the top ones capable of reisting tension with no additional
work. A diagonal brace in compression needs hardly any jointing at all
as it has vertical and lateral compression forces against its trianguar
end and just needs stabilising in place with a very simple joint or
metal hardware. So you save two elaborate carpentry joints.

2. If the diagonal strut bears on the uprights as well as the
horizontals it should be possible to distribute the tension between all
four joints, and all four main members,

I am sure there is a reason why gates are made with wooden diagonals in
compression

It's always been done like that because when people have done it the
other way the gate has been less strong.

It's even in the Bible.

Nathaniel who worked for the Council came to Jesus in the tenth hour
when it was his teabreak and he did sayeth unto him, Can you maketh a
good gate for the Garden of Gethsemane? It must be a proper gate that
will gladden the hearts of all who know anything about woodwork when
they see it.
Jesus said Whence thou knowest me? Nathaniel answered I know you are a
carpenter and also the Son of God on Sundays so you aught to do a good
job.
Jesus drank of his tea and said, You had a gate for the Garden, when I
passed by there seven days ago, for I saw it with mine own eyes, though
it looked like a poor gate I must say.
Nathaniel said, That gate was as worthless as the dung that falls from a
dog, and the man who made it was a wastrel and a vagabond. For he put
the brace the wrong way round and the gate fell into many pieces, and
the pieces still lay on the ground, except for the one that I threw at
the wastrel's head.
Jesus was pleased at this chance to show his worth and become favoured
by the Council for he saw that many lucrative jobs might come unto him
by those means, so he did make a gate, and it was sturdy and fully
children proof with the brace the way His Father had ordained braces
must be.
And so the gate was good, and Nathaniel paid Jesus, and gave him a tip.
The next day when the soldiers came for Jesus to take him to Calvary
where they would kill him he pointed to the man who had made the first
gate, and said, Take that man instead of me for he cannot make a good
gate but I have made an excellent gate and it's over there if you want
to cast thine eyes over it.
The soldiers went to Jesus' gate and one said, This gate is good for
many reasons but the main one is that the brace is the right way round.
So the soldiers took the wastrel who had made the first gate and nailed
him to a cross and forgot about Jesus for the time being.
But the wastrel was the man who had made the cross on which he suffered,
for he had worked for the Council making various things, and he had put
the brace above the crossarm instead of below it, so it was in tension
instead of compression. The pins were rent asunder for the man was
exceedingly stout and the crossarm falleth to the ground, and the man
ran away.
After these events had passed Jesus became the Main Man with the
Council, so it was he who made all the crosses from then on. He made
them how his Father (and his dad Joseph) had said they should be made,
so they were exceeding strong.
So when the soldiers came again and took Jesus and nailed him to a
cross, the cross did not break, and Jesus was stuck there, and he cried
Oh God why hast thou betrayed me? and God answered, Part of thy skill
should be to know when to botch. Think about it my Son.