On 5/25/2017 5:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 5:27:36 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
wrote:
Hope there are more posts to the site. It is easy to do. I can tell you
all that someone listens to these sometimes, but if you don't voice your
opinion, it will be assumed that the issue is of no importance to you. I
would like to have had a bit of time to edit this, but I saw that the
surrounding issues around this proposed regulation had already been
closed to comments. I wanted to get on it and get it out before I forgot or was too busy.

Here's what I posted:

I have been in the construction trades for 40 years off and on. I have
been an owner operator of a small carpentry and woodworking business for
about 35 of those years. In my experience there is a great deal of
similarity in the observance of safety issues between the home shop
worker as well as the professional. In short, the similarity is that
both casual user and professional need training and education, not
additional safety appliances or devices added to tools. Some of the
appartus required over the years have a valid place in both the home shop
as well as in a professional setting, but others are removed, ignored or
not maintained at an operational level.

I truly believe based on my own personal experience of instructing and
overseeing employees and job sites that the saw brake devices will be
disabled or wired around to make the saws work without them. Anything
that would stop work that would be attributed to the saw brake would
cause it to be disabled in some fashion. Doubtful that it would be reset
and rearmed for proper function after a job stoppage. Also, the loss of
a blade that could cost as much as $300 from the mechanism firing would
certainly make any small business man think about rearming the saw brake
device. Besides the down time on the job, a firing of the device will
require that a qualified technician of some sort reinstall the
replacement firing mechanism of the brake. Additionally, there will be a
need to purchase and have on hand another firing device, adding not only
to the expense of the saw brake device, but putting the contractor at
risk of not being able to locate a replacement which would cause more job
site down time. NO doubt that occasion would cause the contractor to
"wire around" the problem. IF the device ever fired off by accident or
by a bad reading, a contractor will be looking at the purchase of a new
blade, a new brake stop firing device as well as all the down time for
(possibly) several employees while the machine is reequipped and reset.
If there is ever a false positive, then certainly a contractor will work
hard to permanently disable the saw blade brake. I strongly believe this
additional device that adds to the cost of a saw will be seen by most
professionals as not only unnecessary, but as an irritant to be disabled
at the first opportunity.

My experience with homeowners/non professionals and their saws is
different. Almost all home accidents come from an occurrence known as
"kickback". This happens when a saw is used incorrectly. The wood being
cut is put in a position that binds the blade against the guiding device
(a "fence" or "miter gauge") or the wood is no longer fed in a straight
line into the blade causing the saw to aggressively grab the wood rather
than cut it. This grab will cause the wood to be removed from the
operator's grasp and will often "kickback" the wood towards or into the
operator or off the table of the saw. The saw makers and the government
have provided different devices to help mitigate this problem, but I very
rarely go into a home shop where the recommended table saw safety devices
are being used, or used properly. Kickback is a technique issue and
rarely happens with proper use of the table saw. it is important to note
that a saw braking mechanism will NOT prevent or mitigate the occurrence
kickback in any way.

I rarely see hands or digits cut by table saws in a home or professional
environment. Very rarely. Most people that use them have a healthy
respect for the tool due to its size and power, and using the tool give
ther operator a tremendous sense of its power. Almost all operators have
a very healthy respect for this tool and use it carefully. I truly
believe that if there was an effective blade braking device attached to a
table saw then most operators would become overconfident and lazy,
knowing that if they have a lapse of judgement of concentration, they
wouldn't suffer any risk of injury. In the particular case of the table
saw, a very healthy fear of the machine is a great thing and does more to
prevent injury than any attached device.

In closing, I hope you can see that while some safety devices are good
ideas, the idea of a saw blade brake is not. Not for the hobbyist or the
professional. Although for two very different reasons, neither would
benefit from it. This is an issue that has been around for years now,
and while the saw blade brake technology certainly has its place, most
are overwhelmingly against it, and mandating it would be of little or no
value to table saw users.

Thank you for your time and attention.


Wow Robert, you really are not familiar with the SS at all it would seem.
Replacing the brake takes a couple of minutes. Have you not seen a demo?
As far as not having a spare replacement brake goes, why would you not have
one on hand? Would you drive out of town with out a spare tire? :-)

I'll take a shot at that:

Job site saws will be used by workers who may not know how to, and aren't
responsible for, fixing equipment when it breaks down. The job site could be
a workshop or a construction site.

First off the triggering of a SawStop brake does not require a repair.
It is designed to have the brake trigger and to be removed and replaced
multiple time a day. I do this on my SawStop sometimes 4 times a day.

In the case of the SawStop, brake replacement is simpler than changing
the blade, AND no tools are required to replace the brake. The only
tool needed is a wrench to take the nut off of the arbor to remove the
blade. If your crew can't do that you have other problems.


In the case of a construction site, it's easy to imagine that the replacment parts
and/or qualified personnel may not always be readily available.

Well, a qualified person with a SawStop could be your 10 year old
daughter. If you are skilled enough to replace the blade or turn on the
saw you are qualified to replace the brake.
A replacement brake and maybe a blade is all you would need. If you go
to a job site with out spare blades that is a problem in itself. If you
use a job site saw with a replaceable brake and do not have a spare that
is also a problem in itself, not a saw issue. Would you go to a job site
with only one trash bag or would you carry spares? AND I wonder how many
contractors carry a spare arbor nut? Those get dropped and lost more
often than you think.

I can see your argument and the concerns but right now these are not
issues that exist. The only saws available with safety features to stop
or drop the blade are simple to perform the replace of the mechanisms.



In either case, the replacment parts had better be under lock and key or they are
going to be stolen by the workers who have brake-mandated table saws at home.

No more likely to be stolen than any other item, like a circular saw,
drill, spare blades, etc. And for that matter the brakes are quite
small and can easily be hidden in a vehicle or locked in a tool box like
any other tools that you don't want to walk off. The brakes for a
SawStop are smaller than a small box of drill bits or two packs of
cigarettes.

Now having said all of this I have 4 years experience with owning and
operating a SawStop. None of these worries have been an issue.
I will also say that I have triggered my dado set brake and that was my
own fault, and the saw was well out of warranty. No damage was done to
the dado set but SawStop replaced the brake at no cost to me anyway. I
did have a spare however, now I have more spares. To detail that a bit
more, I had switched from a normal blade brake to a dado set brake. The
air gap needs to be set when changing from 10" to 8" blades. This is a
matter of turning a hex head bolt two complete turns, that hex head bolt
is painted yellow and you look right at it when you remove the table
insert. I am clueless why I did not do it this time.

Yes this could happen on the job site too but that was operator error
and the blade brake is intended to protect the worker from operator
error. It is more likely the worker would do something to trigger the
brake that would cause an injury.

And I realize that many or at least a few feel that they do not need the
protection. I am not one of them, I cut half of my thumb off 28 years
ago because I did not have this technology available. The accident was
my fault but happened after I finished my cut and turned the saw off.
The SawStop would have prevented it.

And maybe on the job site you have a trigger during a cut, and you don't
have a spare brake. 99% of the time that is not going to be a big deal
as missing 4-5 hours getting another brake is much better than the time
spent going to the ER and later possibly rehab and certainly workmans
comp going up.

Food for thought. It's 1895 and you are walking out of the general
store to load your wagon with the dry goods you just purchased. As you
are unhitching your horse you hear Mr. Bigshot coming down the muddy
street in his new fangeled horseless carriage. Hold on to your horse so
that he does not get spooked and dart out into the path of Mr. Bigshot.
Damn that machine, it makes a lot of noise, belches out smoke, and does
not stop short for anyone. The contraption is a menace to society.

Three years later, same circumstances, except this time Mr. Bigshot is
driving his new "automobile". It is so much better than the one he was
driving just a few years ago, the new one has brakes!

Imagine driving vehicles today with out brakes because some one way back
when thought that they could control their vehicle and bring it to a
stop with out brakes.