On Mon, 15 May 2017 10:51:23 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:56:52 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 15 May 2017 06:22:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 May 2017 05:12:03 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

I presented this badly. what I mean to say is that with lots of things I buy, I encounter incredibly stupid design decisions. Maybe it makes the product look better, or seem better at first glance, but once you use the product it is quickly obvious that functionality was not the priority.

I have a feeling that many 'sets' are put together by people who have
no idea of their use or practicality of the design, as you said.

A 14mm socket will double for 9/16" if used on SAE hardware.

Larger sizes, 15 17 19 are common, but I had to buy a 18mm for use on
some of the first Chevy front ends back in the early '80s.

My parents bought a Craftsman rollaway toolset when I got my diploma
from UTI in '72. In it was a set like you show, but the main
difference was the spinner. It had a screwdriver handle with a 1/4"
square end. The thing I really liked about that set was the spinner
had an inset 1/4" square socket in the back. I can't tell you how
many times I praised the guy who thought that up, because running
hard-to-spin nuts down or properly torquing hardware with the spinner
handle is much harder with a spinner and quite easy with the ratchet
on the back end. It's one of the few things I praised Crapsman for,
because a decade later, I had lost a literal pound of flesh and bucket
of blood from their tools disintegrating within my grasp as I worked.
At that point, I was using power tools only half the time since some
of the angles you work at in the auto industry prevents you from
seeing the bolt you're working on and there's no room for power. So,
when you're giving it everything you have and the tool breaks, your
hands move quickly into sharp and immovable objects, before you can
pull them back. I had one lady come into the shop one day while I was
putting gauze on my hand and heard her scream to the manager about the
blood on the engine of her car. He found me in the bathroom with the
first aid kit open and tols her "He'll wipe it off after he's done
treating his wound." and he walked away. I looked up, she looked
away, and we heard no more screeching that day. (Until I got to Searz
and slammed the broken ratchet down on the counter with my good hand.)
That was one day I got no **** from them about "intentionally breaking
tools". How's that for the Searz "Satisfaction Guarantee"?


You were obviously not using the right tools.

Sorry, clare, but you're flat wrong. I was taught by my father to
properly use and care for tools. It was reinforced by my schooling at
Universal Technical Institute.


In over 25 years of
using mostly Craftsman tools in the trade I don't think I broke more
than 2 or 3 sockets, no extensions, ratchets, or "johnson bars". I

Most of it was hand use of 1/2" sockets and ratchets. I think I did
lose a 3/8 extension once, but it was for a lost ball. It wouldn't
keep the socket on it.

I wore out the 1/2" ratchet, and when I replaced it, I was given cheap
Chinese crap. This is when Searz first started sourcing Crapsman
tools offshore, circa 1979-1980. My toolset was a decade old, and
most of the steel was good. But once they wore out or broke, the
replacements were all ****. I was driving to Searz twice a week
sometimes. The crap sockets would split cleanly in half with a POP.
Ratchets would lose their teeth and I'd lose knuckles and red stuff.
I wasn't abusing tools. I was abusing myself by using what Crapsman
got when it changed tool sources.


always used the largest drive that would do the job if things looked
like they would get tough. I still have the vast majority of my
Craftsman tools purchaced in 1969.

As do I. I've worn out a couple 3/8 and 1/4 ratchets, but lifetime
guarantee is lifetime guarantee. I had to fight the tool managers and
store managers over some of them, but I always showed them the square
drive socket ends and NEVER could they see power tool abuse on and of
them. I worked for a body shop and did a lot of tough jobs regular
mechanics wouldn't. When I worked on the A111 rack, I used hand tools
on the suspension to prevent damage to the wheel sensors.

And some of the stuff I replaced was from wear. The problem was that
when I wore something out at that time, it was replaced with stuff so
cheap that Harbor Fright would never deign to sell it. I often talked
the managers into replacing the 12pt sockets with 6pt (the 3rd or 4th
time), and I guess they were made either with real steel or by another
mfgr, as I never had to replace them again.


1/4 inch drive tools were only used
for bench work on alternators and starters and other similar stuff, or
in cramped quarters under the dash, etc. 3/8 for all the normal little
stuff, and almost exclusively 1/2 inch on all chassis stuff.

Gotta use the right tools for the job. A classmate of mine bought
"snap-off" tools at the same time I bough my Craftsman, and he had
replaced well over half by the time he finished his apprenticeship.

Unreal! How did he manage that? When I first got my pneumatic tools,
I was told that the chrome sockets would not hold up to them for long,
so I bought specific impact sockets and extensions for the heavy stuff
and the sockets I most often used with the pneumatics. But I still
used the chrome sockets with the butterfly 3/8" and air ratchet and
had no trouble.


I think that like Craftsman, Snappy got a bad batch - something wrong
with the alloy or the heat treat - Likely they put together a cheap
set as a "starter set" and it didn't stand up.

I'll bet there was only a short timeframe when the craftsman stuff was
really crappy.

The only advantage to the SO tools was "Snappy" came to the shop in
his shiny truck aevery week or two to replace the broken crap, where I
had to drive to sears every 6 months to 2 years.

You got lucky and never broke anything while they were sourcing ****.
I think it cost them so much the first year, they quickly resourced
and got real steel tools after that, because my problems finally
stopped. But I'd lost a ****load of skin and blood over it, and I'm
still mad as hell at them for it. I also sourced replacement tools
from SnapOn (still cringing at the prices), Cornwall, and MAC.

I'll bet Ken is still really ****ed at Snap-On too.

I bought a fair bit of Herbrand tools in later years (sadly they are
gone now too) and some SK and Proto - only a very few of the grossly
overpriced snap-on (generally specialty stuff no one else had when I
needed it)