On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 7:42:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
So show us the spec sheet for this inverter that will run without
being connected to the grid or a battery bank. Like I say, I haven't
seen one yet that will run without being grid tied or having a battery bank.
He's using a hybrid inverter...So it doesn't need the grid to run.
It's able to provide power without the grid, via the panels on his
house, AND a battery bank if he opts to get one.
http://solar.schneider-electric.com/...brid-inverter/
If you pull up the spec sheet, it's the one to the right:
http://cdn.solar.schneider-electric....DS20161116.pdf
Pulled it up and here is what they say:
Click on Residential Grid-Tied Solar with Backup power:
Solutions
During grid outages PV Inverter production cannot occur, so a home with a PV inverter system installed will not have power during an outage. However for homes that have a PV Inverter system installed and are already selling power to the grid, it is still possible to retrofit backup power using Conext XW+ or SW inverter chargers. In a FIT program either Conext XW+ or SW is added behind PV inverter to provide backup, no change to PV inverter FIT wiring is required. However backup power is limited to the capacity of the battery bank and the solar system cannot be used to charge the batteries while the grid is down. I
Click on Residential Backup Power:
Solutions
Conext XW+ or Conext SW integrates into the residential electrical system and seamlessly converts power from battery reserves to power critical loads such as pumps, security systems, refrigerators and electronics, when utility grid power is unavailable.
Click on Residential Self-Consumption:
Solutions
Enabled by PriorityPower both Conext XW+ and Conext SW will prioritize the self-consumption of stored battery and PV generated power over grid power, helping homeowners avoid high utility charges. Both XW+ and SW also provide for backup in areas prone to grid outages. Conext XW+ takes it one step further by enabling excess PV power to be sold using GridSell Coupling the PV system to the battery bank with Conext MPPT Solar Charge Controllers is the most efficient and economical method for self-consumption
Every scenario that they show using their product, if power is available
without the grid being powered up, it includes BATTERIES.
Further, I pulled up the install instructions. Page 2-13:
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/cms/s...3551255610.pdf
"The Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger operates with batteries as its source of DC
power. If DC power sources are connected directly to the inverter, the DC rating of the inverter can be exceeded and the inverter can be damaged.
Battery Bank Requirements
The DC voltage of the Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger must match the nominal
voltage of the system and battery-connected devices. The inverter is a 48 V
inverter; therefore, the battery bank and battery-connected devices in the system
must be configured for 48 volts.
Battery Cable Requirements
Battery cable
length
Cable runs should be kept as short as practical. Length should not exceed 10
feet (3 m). Run the positive and negative cables alongside each other. Avoid
cable loops.
In order to keep the battery cable length short, install the Conext XW+ Inverter/
Charger as close as possible to the battery room or battery enclosure.
Note: The minimum recommended battery bank is 440 Ah per inverter/charger.
The Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger is designed to operate with batteries and
should not be operated without them. Also, do not allow the battery bank to
become completely discharged. If the voltage of the battery bank falls below
40 volts, the Conext XW+ Inverter/Charger will not operate.
PAges 3-14 thru 3-16 show how it's used, all examples show it connected
to a battery bank.
They are cluster configurable too, so you can extend the capacity by
adding additional ones. It's a sweet one, it really is. Easy to work
with, easy to wire, easy to configure. Nice unit, and powerful.
Here's another one (so I'm not being totally biased here) that can
provide power, without the grid:
https://beyondoilsolar.com/product/s...s-22-inverter/
Also, an optional Secure Power Supply (SPS) feature enables these
Sunny Boy inverters to supply up to 12 A at 120VAC to a single
outlet for recharging portable devices or a small UPS directly from
the PV array in the event of a grid outage.
Note what it says, is that it can supply a "single isolated outlet".
It does not say that it can be configured to power the whole house.
Which of course is obviously because it cannot, because of the same
issues that prevent all the other grid tied systems from providing
power during outages. Look, it's really, really simple. If it were
possible for the array to be used to provide power to the whole house
during outages, every one of these solar companies that are selling
their equipment, installing it, would be hawking this a a MAJOR benefit
and selling point. Either they are incredibly stupid or it's not
simple, cost effective to make this possible without a battery bank
or other substantial increase in cost.
Show us some examples of actual installations that do what you claim.
There should be plenty of application examples, if it exists and is
cost effective for the average homeowner. I'm betting part of the
reason it isn't done is the sun doesn't maintain full 100% power to
the panel all the time. A cloud passes by, if you have no battery bank,
then what? How many people would put up with being cut-off or having
the power drop to 60V when a cloud comes by?
You guys both seem to be a bit more than behind the times on this...
Everyone is free to judge who's out of touch with the times.
Show us examples of companies installing residential solar power
that feature it's ability to work during pour outages without a
battery bank. I would hope that you'd agree that if this is available,
it would be a MAJOR selling point. If company A had it, on a system
that was close in price to company B, that didn't which one would
everyone want?
I also looked for "hybrid solar inverter" and everything I found was
along these lines:
"How are hybrid inverters used in solar projects?
http://www.solarpowerworldonline.com...olar-projects/
January 14, 2015 Kathie Zipp :
Hybrid inverters are commonly used in the developing world, but they are starting to make their way into daily use in certain areas of the U.S due to their ability to stabilize energy availability.
A solar inverters main job is to convert DC power generated from the array into usable AC power. Hybrid inverters go a step further and work with batteries to store excess power as well. This type of system solves issues renewable energy variability and unreliable grid structures.
Key word: Batteries
And again, if these could provide power for the masses with solar array
without batteries when the grid goes down, you'd sure think they would
be bragging about it in the above.
I don't think that's the real problem. The same
potential for backfeeding exists with any alternate
power system, eg generators and it's routinely
handled with an interlock, etc.
It's not a problem. It has an interlock which prevents it from
backfeeding onto a dead grid, just like a house generator does, by
code. As well as having a secondary interlock that he can flip to
isolate his house from the grid, whether it's hot or not.
Apparently the industry disagrees that backfeeding is a problem.
I don't think it's the only problem, ie clouds would seem to be
a bigger and insurmountable problem to me, without a battery bank
of course.