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On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 02:58:49 +0100, The Natural
Philosopher
wrote:
On 23/04/17 21:47, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Bod writes:
From what I've read and heard, most Labour voters
ARE
like
sheep.
I
hear it all of the time "I vote labour because all
my
family
have
always
voted for Labour".
I think there's been a lot of truth in that, but a
lot
of
people
who had always voted Labour for decades have
abandoned
the
party
in last couple of years for two different reasons,
Brexit,
and
the
party's recent move towards the far left (popular
with
Labour
members, but less so with the bulk of voters they
need
to
attract).
Both Conservative and Labour voters were split on
Brexit -
it
wasn't a hard left/right issue. Now the
Conservatives
have
come
out heavily for Brexit, they've pulled in lots of
Labour
Brexiters,
and I think they'll pull in all 5M UKIP voters (UKIP
will
be
dead
in 8 weeks). Conservatives will lose some Remainers
to
Lib/Dems,
but
that will be small compared with their gains from
Labour
and
UKIP.
I think the most significant thing historically will
be
the
number
of traditional left wing voters who've moved well to
the
right
just
to ensure Brexit goes through. They'll probably move
back
a
few
years after Brexit, but for now, they regard Brexit
as
more
important
than left/right politics.
Labour hasn't been a party of the working class - the
white
working
class for two decades or more. Not since Thatcher
really.
Its the party of the nouveau rich middle class, you
know
'me
grandad
were a milkman but I am a sound engineer at the beeb,
and
own
me
own
house' sort.
Working class are way right of Labour.
You mean way left.
Nope, **** all of the working class is into the
sort of Trotskyite **** that Corbyn and co are.
That's why so many of them kept putting Maggie in.
Every working class person I know does not vote Tory
(right
wing).
Then you need to get out more.
Why would a poor person not want handouts?
Even the Torys do handouts.
They continually reduce them as much as they can get away
with.
Bull****. And they jacked up the minimum wage much more than
Labour
did.
It's on a very slow rise, barely over inflation.
That's a lie with the most recent change.
That's what I thought until I looked it up. It's hardly gone up
at
all.
That's bull****. Its gone up a lot more than Labour did.
And it's spread over several years.
It always is.
It's negligible.
Bull****.
State how much you think it's risen. It's only a quid or two.
Still a lot more than Labour did.
Labour are stupid.
All politicians are stupid.
Yes, which is why there should be a place to vote for "none" on the
ballot
papers.
No point in farting around with a ballot paper, just don't vote.
That supplies no information,
It supplys the information that you arent interest in voting.
They don't care. They just multiply the votes up to the population.
and they simply act on the results from those who do vote.
They would do that even if there was a
place to vote none on the ballot paper.
If we had a "none" entry, then there would be the possibility of no
arsehole controlling us.
Nope, because even you should have noticed that no
polly would ever be stupid enough to have a system
where, if there were enough none votes in a particular
seat, that seat would remain without a member.
And pollys don't control us, we decide if they
get the bums rush at the ballot box or not.
They do control us if what you say is true. Why shouldn't we be allowed to choose nobody to control us?
What's wrong with freedom? Why should we have anyone in charge?
No one is in charge.
Govts don't control a damned thing.
They create the laws we have to follow or their police come after us.
Just enough to appease the chav masses.
They don't vote tory anyway.
Ok, the ones who are slightly better off than that, vote Tory,
but
still
care for their chav relations.
Hardly any of the chav masses bother to vote at all.
Cite.
Look at the voting stats where the chav masses 'live'
They are evenly scattered,
Like hell they are.
I've looked on the internet, they are everywhere.
But not EVENLY SCATTERED.
Pretty much so.
Nothing even remotely.
Cite.
The census.
Link?
Prove otherwise.
Look at the census data.
Gimme a link.
Even you should be able to find that yourself.
Have done in the past and there are chavs everywhere.
But nothing even remotely like EVENLY SCATTERED.
Even you should have noticed that there are a
lot more in the council estates or the worst of
the Glasgow slums than around Buck House etc.
I've looked at stats on the internet, and was surprised to find they are everywhere. I thought there were a lot here, but apparently they're all over the place.
therefore there are no such stats.
Even sillier than you usually manage.
Or maybe the Tories want the chavs to start voting for them too?
Corse they do, but it doesn't matter what
they want, it isnt going to happen.
Giving them more money will help.
Nope, they don't bother to vote.
They will vote for whoever gives them the most benefits.
They don't bother to vote.
Prove it.
Look at the percentage who bother to vote.
2/3rds isn't it?
Varys with what is going on politically.
Not by much.
By a hell of a lot actually.
The same third are to lazy to vote.
Even sillier than you usually manage.
They have no interest in politics and realise that
who gets elected is almost completely irrelevant.
No, they're just thick or ignorant or lazy.
I mean the other alternative in Scotland is SNP,
Yep, its only the toffs that vote tory in scotland
and there are only enough of those to get a
couple of torys elected.
A lot of Scots are ****ed off with the SNP,
But those don't vote tory, you watch.
Nobody else to vote for.
They wont vote, you watch.
hopefully they won't all vote SNP next time.
They are in fact much more likely to do that next
time because most of them are actually stupid
enough to want to stay in the EU and SNP wants
that and the torys have noticed that the majority
of voters who bothered to vote voted to leave
and decided to do what they voted for.
Actually most of the remoaners are in London, not Scotland.
Irrelevant to the fact that most in scotland don't want to leave the
EU.
Scots aren't that bright. They can't even talk properly.
And didn't even manage to invent pants, or underware.
Underwear is pointless unless you have some kind of problem of being
really smelly.
You run the same stupid line about clothes.
Different reason. Clothes are not needed in warm blooded mammals.
You wouldn't last long in the artic or Antarctic without them.
Try it. Please.
Shivering won't kill me, as long as I have enough food to create that heat.
and we all know she ****ed things up royally.
But you lot vote SNP anyway if you do bother to vote.
SNP are communist arseholes, hopefully most of us have realised
this
now.
Even if they have, they will vote for them anyway, you watch.
Why would anyone vote for an arsehole?
Because they like the alternatives even less.
There is no other possible explanation for why
scotland has returned almost no one except the SNP.
Scots are so stupid as to vote for anyone who claims to make Scotland
more
important than the UK. Patriotic idiots....
They did get a lot more out of the english that way.
Yip, the English are quite gullible.
Not gullible so much as that they didn't want Scotland to leave.
That;'s because they're stupid. They would have ended up losing a drain
on their money.
Just as true of the dregs of any country.
Hardly any of them are happy for them to leave tho.
Scotland saps money form England. Why would England want to keep us?
Too stupid to do what the Romans did, have a wall to keep them out.
Even that fool Trump worked that one out.
Trump is not a fool.
Corse he is. He's never going to get
Mexico to pay for that wall, you watch.
So what? His ideas are far better than anyone else.
But never did work out how to stop
the english stealing their oil and gas.
Most comes from the Arabs anyway now.
Not the gas it doesn't.
Says who?
Anyone who has enough of a clue to look at the stats.
Show me them.
AFAIK where there's oil there's gas.
As for them wanting a SECOND independance referendum, that's
ridiculous and has ****ed half of us off.
All irrelevant now Britain is leaving the EU.
Not if Scotland separates and rejoins it.
I meant that May wont be having a second referendum now.
If Scotland gets independance, we might try to rejoin.
No might about it, sure to do that, and will succeed in joining too.
I doubt the EU will let us,
Corse they will when they let the dregs like Romania and Poland join.
The EU will disappear in it's entirety soon anyway.
Bet it doesn't. It may well end up rather different than it is
now, but its being doing that ever since it started anyway.
Ever since Brexit, the other countries are thinking about leaving too. The **** is about to hit the fan.
Plenty countries are telling it to **** off.
Only one has had a majority vote to leave.
Only one has had a referendum so far.
It's a silly little failure of a club.
It has ensure that you stupid europeans don't try to rip
each others throats out in every single generation at vast
cost which bankrupts countrys stupid enough to try that.
You stupid europeans have been doing that for millennia
now and have finally come to your senses on that.
And a free trade area over the whole
of europe makes a lot of sense too.
You don't need a club for trade. And we don't want to be told what shape our bananas have to be, or what wattage our vacuum cleaners must be.
Since I'm English by blood, I may just leave.
I don't they care what you do.
And I thought you loved me.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed psychotic fantasys.
Aren't I the only person who replies to your posts?
Nope. You're actually in a minority.
That's what I just said,
Nope. You are a minority of those who do reply to my posts.
Exactly, **** all people talk to you.
And only Dave the sot and me reply to yours.
Funny how I can't keep up with replies to me.
Yes, you are that stupid.
And that's not funny, its pathetic.
You said hardly anyone replies to me, so why do I have hundreds of posts in my replies folder?
And working class people arent necessarily poor people
anyway.
That's what it means.
Nope, it JUST means they do that sort of work.
And that sort of work doesn't pay much.
Irrelevant to what is working class.
And quite a bit of working class work
pays very well indeed, particularly in
the oil and gas industry and mining etc.
I'd call them middle class.
More fool you. A drill rigger isnt middle class.
They make far more money than a dustman.
And are still working class anyway.
Money is what decides your class.
Wrong.
Nobody agrees:
Another lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
Doesn't say anything like your ****.
Everybody knows that class is based on income.
Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there.
What's wrong with it?
Everything.
You have no substance to your argument.
Snobs have huge mansions and speak like the Queen. Chavs live on
benefits and live in council flats.
And a chav that wins lotto etc is still a chav.
No,
Yep.
they get snobby and bigheaded.
Doesn't make them middle class.
Yes it does. Money changes what you're like.
Middle class people do not have to run their own business.
Yes, clearly anglican ministers, doctors employed by the
NHS, managers working for a salary etc are all middle class.
Correct.
So money doesn't decide your class.
Those people you listed have a medium amount of money.
Not those that end up with **** all because their ****ed up
their investments. They are still middle class with **** all money.
They become lower class when they live in a council flat.
Nope. And they don't live in council flats anyway.
If you have **** all, where else would you live?
Somewhere cheap, bludge off the relos usually
with the middle class fallen on hard times. They
wouldn't be seen dead in a council flat.
Might not have rich relos.
Adam certainly isnt.
Then he isn't working class.
Corse an electrician is working class.
There's an electrician three doors down from me. Hardly
working
class.
He runs his own business and owns three properties.
Adam doesn't do that.
Thought he was in charge of underlings?
Foremen are still working class. And in the past
most of the working class had apprentices and
that's the only underlings he has.
Depends what he gets paid.
Nope, there have always been some of the working
class that get much better paid than the dregs of the
working class. Its what they do that determine whether
they are middle class or working class or a toff.
If they get more money, they become snobbier.
Nope. They stay chavs.
Money corrupts.
Hasn't corrupted me.
What are your total assets?
Leaves yours for dead. I'm rolling in it.
I see, so you won't admit the number.
Yep, none of your business. And I don't want you chavs
showing up and trying to grab it, the rotty would makes
such a racket that it would wake the neighbours and using
the shotty on you would be even worse in that regard.
I can only assume that you aren't rich then.
They want handouts.
Corse you never ever do that yourself, eh ?
I take whatever's available, I'm a scrounger at heart.
And yet you don't vote Labour.
Because I don't want any money I earn to go to someone else.
It does anyway.
Moreso with Labour.
Nope, they don't get any more tax out of you than the torys do.
Tories are making cutbacks to the NHS etc. Labour increase that
spending.
Irrelevant to whether labour got more money out of you or not.
It's very relevant. If they spend more they need more taxes to
fund
it.
Nope, they just run up the deficit. And since you are a
tax avoider, they don't get more money out of you anyway.
Labour run up the defecit then the tories have to try to fix it.
And they cant fix it by getting more money out of you.
They fix it by stopping wasting money on things like te NHS and child
benefits.
Not possible, they'd be out of a job if
they were stupid enough to do that.
Lots of voters would love to pay way less taxes.
Sure, but any polly actually stupid enough to wind up
the NHS and child benefits now would be out of a job so
fast that its feet wouldn't even touch the ****ing ground.
********.
Fact.
Plenty of us are fed up of paying for chavs' medical expenses and kids.
Loads would vote for such a change.
How odd that sweet **** all do for the libertarian partys
that have that as their policy. Bet you can't even name
them they are so completely politically irrelevant.
I once voted Libertarian. They rarely have an MP for me to vote for though.
Remove the drain on our money.
Remove your benefits, bludger.
If there were no benefits, people wouldn't be made poor in the first place by huge taxes.
They've just stopped child benefits for more than two kids.
And so they should. Completely stupid to be taxing everyone,
pumping that money thru the system and then straight back to
the same people the money was collected from in the first place.
There shouldn't be any child benefits for anyone
except those whose kids would starve without it.
And it shouldn't be possible to spend the benefits
on grog and cigarettes and gambling etc, just on
what those kids eat and clothes for them to wear etc.
Should be no benefits at all.
Most of the voters don't like seeing dead little kids in the gutter.
Most of the voters don't care for chavs breeding 10 kids each.
Which is why the torys eliminated the child benefits for more than 2 brats.
At last. Hopefully that's only the first step. We've been waiting to get rid of those for several decades.
The only reason the Tories don't cut taxes is they're trying to
get rid of the debt the Labour government put us in.
Mindlessly simplistic.
But true.
Nope.
Prove it.
No need, its obvious.
It's obvious you're wrong.
Whatever.
Try some research.
Been doing that since long before you were even born, thanks.
Allegedly.
--
Tell a man that there are 400 billion stars and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint and he has to touch it.