Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Roger Hayter
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:


I thought I might summon the energy to point out the dishonesty of
calling multiple referenda to achieve the EU loyalist result one wants
an "EU trick". It is, of course, the trick of various sovereign
governments of independent EU states which themselves (said governments)
wish to achieve a pro-EU answer. In other words, cynical trick it might
be but the EU is *not* responsible for it; except to the extent of
it being a highly undesirable organisation to belong to.

There - fixed that for you.

Of course the second referenda in question were organised by the
sovereign govts. But there was EU pressure to do so. After the Irish
rejected Lisbon the first time, EU officials were heard to say that the
EU project "can't be held up by a little country".

Indeed. The Irish then had the same choice as all of us. Get the
treaty approved or leave the EU. But they had that free, sovereign
choice.

So why wasn't there a third referendum then? or fourth? Or fifth?
Either you believe that you have a referendum and abide by the result
or don't bother.

The Irish had a referendum. There was a result. That should have been
the end of the matter.

Why? I can see why the winners of the first one would prefer that but
I can't see any logical or democratic reason why it shouldn't be
repeated if a government feels that an ill-advised decision has been
made. Neither in theory nor in practice is there a reason why a single
referendum should be sacrosanct any more than a single general election
(which can be repeated immediately if a majority of MPs feel that the
results are not conducive to stable government).

FWIW I agree it would be wrong to repeat *our* Brexit referendum, unless
there is a major change in world circumstances, because the views on
both sides are so entrenched and another close result would lead to
severe dissatisfaction whoever won, but other referenda in other
countries which were more about detailed negotiating points might have
been more amenable to reasonable discussion and changing of minds.

I don't accept there is any a priori reason why repeated referenda are
always undemocratic.





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Roger Hayter