In article HdadnRHZwLX9phnFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 1/21/2017 9:10 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article t_CdnWV2jYcRixnFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...

On 1/21/2017 7:19 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I simply indicated that vehicles do have problems past the emission
warranty. You stated that if they make it past that point they are
probably good to go.

That is not what I stated. What I stated was
that if the engine was good enough to make it to
that point without having a wrench turned on it
it has to be a pretty decent design.

As the ****ing contest goes on,,,

this is exactly what you said,

Since just
about everything in the engine is emissions
related they pretty much are forced to make them
reliable over that period. If they can stay
tuned for 50,000 miles they're going to be
pretty durable.


Now I am going to say in a slightly different way,
Fowled plugs and or clogged injectors do not result in a tuned engine.
This can happen at any point in an engines life.

Perhaps we are saying the same but in a
different way.

At this point you're just being argumentative to
be argumentative, a habit that you don't seem
aware of.

Pot, Kettle




I don't want a powerful fast car, I want a
car
that isn't going to give me trouble for 20
years. I know from long experience that
normally aspirated iron block engines will do
that. I have no evidence that turbocharged
aluminum block engins of 1/10 the displacement
but producing the same power will last nearly as
long.

Well those engines, normally aspirated iron block, are disappearing fast
and I have not seen any 3 cylinder 45 cid engines that you are talking
about.

Ford ecoboost. I exaggerate a bit but they're
getting 123 HP out of a 60 cubic inch turbo 3 in
the Focus.

Yes you did exaggerate a bit and that is the problem with some of your
comments.
I'll take your word that your numbers about size and power are correct
on the Ecoboost.

But consider that a 2.3 liter aluminum block Chevy engine, in 1972
produced 93 HP And failed miserably.
Today triple that HP out of an aluminum block engine only 50% larger,
3.5 liter, and get 20% better gas mileage in town and on the highway.

So? Smaller engines get better mileage--that's
physics.

How long does that engine last though?

Apparently with Toyota in excess of 150K.




Most Toyotas are driven 150K miles before being traded for the first
time. that is 3~4 longer than most of those 2.3 liter engines Chevrolet
produced in the early 70's.
The Japanese have been turbo charging aluminum block engines for decades.

Yeah, I had a non-turbo aluminum block Toyota
that went through three engines in 30,000 miles.
Sorry, but Toyota isn't any paragon of
durability.

Well some people take better care of their vehicles than others, and
there is a lemon in every basket. But you would be hard pressed to find
a more reliable longer lasting vehicle than Toyota when comparing apples
to apples.

Leon, that Toyota is the only car I've ever had
that experienced an engine failure. If it was
lack of maintenance then why didn't I get the
same results with every other car I've had?

However lasting longer than a Vega engine which
had an iron head on an aluminum block, a recipe
for failure, isn't anything to brag about.

Is any one bragging?

Are you autistic or something? Have you never
heard that expression before?

And FWIW the vast majority of pistons are
aluminum, even in cast iron
block engines.

So what?

The "aluminum", in the piston, that you are so afraid to admit to being
a good material takes more punishment than any cast iron block. It is
exposed to tremendous heat and absorbs direct hit explosions billions of
times during its life cycle.

Leon, you are putting words in my mouth, a bad
habit. I have never said that aluminum wasn't a
"good material". But it works better for some
purposes than others, just as is true of all
other materials. Rubber is a great material for
tires but it's not so good for crankshafts.
Engineers pick the material for the job, we
don't just say "iron good, aluminum bad" and
make everything out of one or the other on
ideological grounds.

Pistons don't have tightly fitted steel rings
sliding up and down them thousands of times a
minute. Cylinder walls do. Put aluminum
pistons in an iron engine and the clearances
tighten as it warms. Put iron pistons in an
aluminum engine and they loosen as it warms.
Pistons are reciprocating mass--the lighter they
are the less stress on the system.

Your "direct exposure to explosions" is only a
tiny part of the engineering picture.

Technology in metallurgy has come a very
long way.

And maybe it's come a long enough way that the
tiny little high-revving turbowonders that the
government is forcing automakers to use today
will last the same 300+ thousand miles as the
ironblocks. When they've been around long
enough to accumulate 300,000 miles get back to
me.

Shall I get back to you now? It is already happening on a daily basis.
Commercial turbo charged diesel engines. You done see them here but
they are India.

What planet to you inhabit? Commercial turbo
charged diesel engines were in common use in the
US when I was a small child.

A 13 liter 600 horsepower engine that weighs
more than most cars is not a "tiny little high-
revving turbowonder".

You seem to have a childlike faith in
engineers.

No, I have experience with dealing with engines as a profession.

So tell us about your personal experience with
tiny high-revving turbowonders. I asked you do
do that before and you babbled about truck
engines in India. Do you live in India? If not
how do you from your personal experience know
anything about those engines?

And your personal experience clearly does not
extend to commercial truck engines in the US.

I am one, and I know that we are not gods, our
**** stinks, and we can't walk on water.
Physics places limits on what engineers can do.
When you make something smaller and lighter for
the same power output with the same
thermodynamic cycle, something has to give.
Either the cost goes through the roof or
durability suffers.

Well that is what they have been saying for decades and the limit has
not yet been reached. Open your eyes.

Nobody but you is on about "limits". Put enough
boost on it and a chainsaw engine could power
New York for about a nanosecond before it self
destructed. You don't seem to grasp the concept
that everything in engineering is a tradeoff.
You can have light, strong, or cheap. Pick two.

To you I say, as I told my son a time or two. Can't never could do
anything.

And all the "can" in the world won't stop the
tide.

But that comment clearly marks you as a pointy-
haired boss and not one of the dilberts who
actually has to do the work.