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[email protected] pfjw@aol.com is offline
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Default Tubes in broken spotwelder & other questions

First, where are you? All the tubes you mention are quite common and not very expensive. I probably have all of them in my rather random connection. The bigger issue are those capacitors.

Please note the interpolations.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 1:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
All,
I know almost nothing about tubes(AKA valves). My son bought a
capacitor discharge spotwelder that uses tubes. It doesn't work. Parts
of it do but on the whole it appears that it doesn't charge the caps.
There are three types of tubes in the thing.
3 each OA2WA voltage regulators
2 each 2D21 thyratrons
1 each 5U4GB rectifier
There are also 6 each physically large electrolytic caps that are,
I believe, rated for 450 volts. They are made by Sprague and are
marked 200-450. No uf markings though. Apparently a couple rattle when
shaken-probably not a good sign.


200uF @ 450V. You could pay anywhere from $15 to $100 for those caps. Given the application, do not cheap out, but get as high a quality as you can afford. You also have the choice to put caps in parallel to make the capacity - and series/parallel to make a higher working voltage. There is plenty of room given the size of modern caps to go this route.

There are two transformers. The first has many taps and the second
is connected through a relay to the bank of caps. The secondary of
this xmfr is the spotwelder output.
As near as I can tell the circuit basically operates like so: The
first xmfr provides 450 volts AC which goes through the 5U4GB tube to
be rectified and then through three OA2WA tubes which are connected
in series. From there the power goes to the cap bank and charges the
caps. And from the caps through a big relay to the output xmfr.
The OA2WA tubes have only two of the pins connected. So power goes
in one pin and then out the other to the next OA2WA tube and so on. It
looks like there is no output from the last tube in the series. So
maybe this is why the caps won't charge.


It is probably a blessing that your rectifier (5U4) tube does not work. Were you to be passing B+ - well, the results may be unhappy - see below.

At least one 2D21 thyratron seems to work because the relay that
connects the cap bank works when the machine is triggered.
I would like to know how to test the tubes without a tube tester.


Other than for filament continuity and gross shorts (shorts on a cold tube), no you have no certain way to test tubes without a tester.

Maybe this means I will need to make a tester. I also would like to
know how to test the big caps. My meter has a cap test function but it
doesn't seem to work with these big caps. Maybe this is because the
caps are high voltage types. Is it (fairly) safe to attempt charging
the caps with line voltage (120 volts) by first rectifying and then
passing the current through a resistor and then to the caps?
Here is a link to pics my son took of the guts of the spotwelder:
https://goo.gl/photos/LF4JKeGyA4YWiCwv9
Any comments about the spotwelder would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric


The big caps are toast - full stop. DO NOT EVEN TRY to operate the tester without them as it is possible to do permanent damage to the transformers if the caps are shorted.

If you are anywhere near the Melrose Park section of Cheltenham Township (Philadelphia area) let me know. Despite the size and industrial application, this is a fairly basic issue to troubleshoot.

Now, showing my age, I used one of those ancient beasts some 40 years ago when I was working as a machinist. When set up properly, they are amazingly versatile. I used one to weld various thickness of inconel wave washers and pimple washers onto stainless steel seal backs for aircraft and nuclear applications. From stuff that was almost as thin as paper (0.004 thick) to stuff as thick as index card stock - dial in the machine, pass the pull-tests and it would hold the setting, effectively, until changed. There was a small stash of tubes above the machine - but no 2D21s. When one of them died one way, I found it at Leon Fertik's establishment for $1.50. I replaced them both and purchased two spares. The machine shop is still with us and thriving. Leon, sadly gave up his shop after his wife passed.

Best of luck with it - I can think of a lot of uses.... Especially if your son is an artist.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA