On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 16:46:32 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 6:06:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 04:16:48 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:07:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 20:52:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:
Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.
Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?
No he isn't, you should call an electrician.
Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
If properly installed, all "downstream" components are protected.
Upstream are not.
Properly installed means connected to the panel with the "line"
screws, and the downstream connected to the "load" screws.
Well, we should make sure we are clear in our wording for the non-initiated.
A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired. There
is nothing "mandatory" about using the load side for downstream fixtures.
NitPicker. In order to provide downstream protection, they need to be
"properly installed" - which means installed as I described.
So, just to be clear, are you saying that a GFCI with the downstream receptacles
connected to the line side is *not* properly installed?
It is not "properly ninstalled" to provide downstream protection if
the downstream is not connected to the load side.
The OP was confused about whether a CGCI outlet protected the outletsm
downstream, and I said it did if it was properly installed - OBVIOUSLY
meaning properly installed to do the required job of protecting the
downstream circuits.
In addition, it doesn't have to be connected to the *panel*, at least not directly.
Agaiun, nitpicker. It IS connected to the panel - one way or another.
I already said that that was a nit, in fact it's still there at the bottom of this post.
In any case, thank you for affirmation.
The "downstream" side is the side NOT connected to the panel in any
way if the GFCI device is removed.
Unless to downstream receptacles were wired nutted to the source wires and then pigtailed
to the line side of the GFCI. I think that that would be a "proper installation" but I'd not be
upset if I found out that it was not.
Upstream = panel side = LIVE
Downstrream = load = DEAD
*Source wires connected to the line screws" would cover all cases better than
"connected to the panel". That's a bit of a nit, but it covers it all just a little more
clearly.
To those of us who understand these things, yes. To those who don't
have a clue, perhaps not.
The difference between you and I in regards to both of these issues is
that I see your explanations being more fitting for someone in the know,
while you (I think) think that they are geared more for the novice.
Allow me to explain just you know where I'm coming from.
When I hear "properly installed GFCI" I immediately think "properly installed
for what purpose"? Properly installed to provide downstream protection or
properly installed to protect only itself even though there are downstream
fixtures? When discussing this with someone who has no idea how a GFCI works
and/or how it can be used, I feel that we would be doing them a disservice
if we give the impression that using a GFCI to provide downstream protection
is the only "proper" way to install one. That is why I nitpicked your use of
the words "properly installed." It wasn't a slam on you, it was a teaching
moment for the novices.
If installing a GFCI outlet instead of a GFI breaker it will be for 1
of 3 reasons. Number 1 - lower cost to provide complete circuit
protection - On my QO panel installation a GFCI outlet is about half
the cost of a breaker. I used GFCI breakers even though the cost was
higher on the circuits that were not covered by item #3 to follow.
#2 - installing GFCI protection on a fused panel - no other reasonable
way to do it. Again - protecting the entire circuit. (sometimes done
at the panel - running the wires from the panel to a "deadhead" gfci
device - but using a normal GFCI outlet in place of the "deadhead" is
cheaper and they are more readily available)
#3 = protecting one or more outlet on a circuit where you do not want
the rest of the circuit protected. An example is one circuit feeds
powder-room receptacele, refrigerator, and outdoor weatherproof - in
that order. The powder-room and weatherproof require GFCI protection -
while it is preferred NOT to have a GFCI on the fridge.. This is the
only situation where NOT using the feedthrough would be "properly
installed"
The same (IMO) holds for the use of the words "connected to the panel". Yes,
those of us familiar with electrical wiring and specifically GFCI's know
that it all eventually ends up back at the panel, but once again I feel that
we need to be perfectly clear for those that have less experience. If they
don't know how a GFCI works, then they may take the words "connected to the
panel with the line screws" literally. In other words, if they don't know
how a GFCI works, they may think that it needs to be first device in a branch
circuit since the words used were "connected to the panel".
Again, all I was doing was clarifying both issues, even it was picking a
nit. What may be a nit to us could save a novice both confusion and
extra work.