On 15/08/2016 07:32, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 14 August 2016 20:53:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 14 August 2016 04:56:46 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/08/2016 18:17, harry wrote:

Nobody

Bzzzzrt Wrong, try again harry.

Are you telling us that never in the history of EV ownership has anyone
ever ran out of juice?

runs car batteries to depletion because you can't take electricity to
them in containers/buckets.

As there is noway of accurately knowing how much energy remains in a
battery, no-one runs their battery even close to depletion.

Lets take a real world example. A friend of mine was coming over to see
me in his leaf. He left home with a nearly full charge, to do what
should have been a 40 mile journey. Normally he can *just* get here and
back again on a single charge.

This time it was very cold, and he got stuck for an hour and a half in a
traffic jam on a dual carriage way due to an accident. Since he needed
to run heating for that time, that eat into his juice. When he got close
to my place his car was telling him he had 10 miles of range. Then he
found they were resurfacing our road, and he could not get into it from
one end. Needed to detour of a few miles to go to the other end and come
in that way. He finally pulled onto my drive with the car indicating 4
miles range remaining.

Now whether you know exactly what capacity remains or not does not
really matter. Its not good for the stress levels to have the car saying
4 miles left when you have an unknown number of miles still to do, and
nowhere handy to plug it in.

One never knows exactly how much power will be consumed on a "new"
journey either. There are so many factors.

I know your story is a lie.

Like most things you "know", they are incorrect.

Electric cars use zero power while stopped in traffic. It is one of their main benefits.

What do the heaters run on - Scotch mist?

And nobody sets off on an extreme range journey with less then full charge.

40 miles is not an "extreme range journey" - its one that he knows his
car will do on less than half a charge.

And unless they know exactly where/how they are going to recharge,

Which he did - he knew that he could recharge at my place when he got here.

when half the available energy is used on a journey, they turn round and go home.

So he runs out a few mile from home, wastes a few hours and does not get
where he wanted to go?

Yup, I can see that would make perfect sense to someone like you.

No-one would set out on such a journey anyway without pre-checks.

What would you suggest, a survey of all the drivers likely to be using
the same road to check if they are planning on having an accident?

I always check distances on Google Maps for a new destination and try to assess any hills by looking at a map.

Do you have the comprehension skills of a spanner? (no need to answer
that, we know the answer).

He was coming here. The clue in the description was "friend" - you could
perhaps infer from that, he has been here before!

The energy content/computer range calculation devices on electric cars are inaccurate.
Too many assumptions are made.
So the "four miles" is also cobblers.

Yup, it might have only be 1 or it might have been ten.

(he also has a (non Nissan approved) smartphone app that lets him
interrogate all kinds of detail from the car that it won't tell you via
its instrumentation, such as the actual battery state and the capacity
remaining)

All this means that you have to keep some "range" in hand when assessing any extreme range journey.

40 miles? Can I have a pint of whatever you are on harry?

And charging in the car park at Lakeside now costs my mate with the leaf
£12, that's not far cheaper than petrol (if at all).


One of the reasons I charge at home.
They were all free or cheap card operated only a couple of years back.
But that was always a dodgy inducement.

Bait and switch, as I said.

In Summer I charge on free electricity.

Its not free - it cost you a significant capital cost to be able to
collect this "free" electricity.

It's free. I get paid for it whether I use it myself or not.

Its free in the same way the gas I get from EDF is free - it just comes
out of a hole in the ground.



You seem to be wandering off at a tangential irrelevance.

You stated that "no-one runs their battery even close to depletion". I
have given you one example of when this was untrue.

Had you have said that "EV owners will try to avoid situations where
there run close to depletion", then I would have accepted your
statement. But you stated categorically that it never happens.

It's a technical impossibility to determine the exact amount of energy remaining in a battery.

I agree you can't do it precisely.

This makes the problem worse rather than better.

At some point the car will decide that it is not going to go any further
and stop - its software will make this decision based on what its
sensors are telling it about the charge state - knowing that it needs to
maintain enough energy to protect the battery from damage, and keep the
cars electronics and control systems operable. It will make that
decision with some caution and err on the side of being over protective.

Whether it makes this decision at the perfectly optimal time or not, is
again of little relevance - since you have still stopped, and are not
going any further. Whining that there is still charge in the battery
ain't going to help.

So prattling about the accuracy of the readings is just an attempt at
obfuscation.

So any stupid "apps" are of no benefit at all.

They are of great benefit since they tell you stuff you can't otherwise
find out. Like what fault codes the car is reporting, or what the
remaining battery health is - all stuff not disclosed by the internal
instrumentation, and stuff the services centres are reluctant to hand out.

They can tell you where the nearest charge point is.

Not this one. Its just for car diagnostics, and some remote control /
status reporting so you can see the state of charge when you are not
physically in the car, and turn on the heater etc while its mains powered.

But not whether it's in use, working or vandalised.
I can see you are very credulous. Bamboozled by the sales bull****.

Odd how I can see through your bull**** so easily then.

Note also that these particular apps are not approved by or created by
Nissan - and they don't promote them, so its seems a bit of a stretch to
claim they are an exercise in marketing.

(in fact their service centres get the hump when owners use them to
challenge any dodgy claims made by the service centre)

Nobody uses the heater on an electric car on an extreme range journey. If it's that cold, the battery performance will be affected as well.

ok let's do subtitles for the "brain dead" as you would say:

"Nobody" again - every time you say it you know its going to be wrong.

This was not an extreme range journey - this was a short to mid range
journey. A repeat journey that had been made many times before.

It was entirely reasonable to use the heater on a very cold day, when
starting a short journey that should take 30 - 40 mins.

Even when you get stuck in traffic, you don't have an immediate
indication that you will be stuck for an extended period of time.



--
Cheers,

John.

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