"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , harry
writes
On Sunday, 13 March 2016 08:09:13 UTC, Richard wrote:
"News" wrote in message ...

In message ,
writes

Every time I hear an Outer talking is persudes me to vote In
every time I head an Inner talking they persuade me to vote Out.

+1

I'm still undecided. Initially, I would have voted to stay in, without
much thought, then, after some listening and reading, I veered towards
out. Now, I just don't know, although stay seems favourite.

What is the EU really all about? Go back 60+ years and an integrated
Europe was about prevention of another European war. That was first
and
foremost, at least from the British view.

No it wasn't.

Yes it was for most western european countries.

Maybe it was for the French

No maybe about it, and not just for the French either.

who didn't want us in especially De Gaulle.

Unity in the eh shape of NATO

NATO wasn't about unity.

was to prevent the USSR from overrunning western Europe,

Yes.

a very real threat in the immediate post war era.

That was never going to happen.

Anything else was almost a
bonus.

Look at the possibility of a UK exit from the European side. Is it
really about Britain leaving, or about Britain setting a precedent?

It's about the UK ;leaving.

Bet it isn't for the majority.

What other countries do is up to them.

That isnt what the EU thinks.

If they what to be part of the German Empire

Even sillier than you usually manage.
That isn't why anyone else joined the EU.

that's their problem

Not a problem for them, they aren't the ones wanting to leave.

Were
we to leave, would any other countries follow? Not the recent members,
but any of the longer term 'traditional' European countries who also
feel hard done by?

Such as? Most countries are net beneficiaries

So is Britain.

so they won't leave and they don't have the Uk's alternative links.

Britain doesn't have any alternative links that matter anymore.

The US cares a lot more about trade with the EU than
Britain essentially because there is **** all trade with
Britain anymore and nothing they can only get from there
that isnt available regardless of whether Britain stays in
the EU or not.

The possibility of the EU becoming Germany and all
the hangers on?

Well after all it was the deal Hitler offered us. He would have Europe and
we could keep our overseas empire.

Yes, but the empire would never have lasted even if Britain
had gone that route and Japan would still have done what
it did, essentially because they had no choice on that after
the sanctions imposed after the rape of Nanking etc.

Just suppose Brexit did result in other exits over time and,
eventually,
to the downfall of Europe as we have known it since WWII.

Why do we always think we have responsibility for every one else in the
world.

No one ever said Britain did, but it certainly has quite a bit
of the responsibility for the complete and utter shambles
that it produced in the middle east and in Africa etc.

They can make up their own minds.

But he is talking about a situation where the EU stops
being viable because Britain chooses to leave and others
choose to leave after Britain has chosen to leave.

Very unlikely that Britain will chose to leave
IMO and even less likely that any other country
will just because Britain has chosen to leave.

But NATO will still be there

NATO is completely irrelevant now except in the sense
that the EU chooses to get involved in stuff like the
collapse of Yugoslavia and with the Ukraine etc.

and as long as NATO around there will be no European war.

There will be no western european war again now,
essentially because the Marshall Plan after WW2 had
ended meant that no country would be in such a
desperate situation like Germany was between the wars
so that they had nothing to lose in a full world war.

Nothing to do with NATO which as you correctly said
was about the USSR, not another world war started in
western europe again.

Just suppose
it did lead to another European war. Could I ever forgive myself if I
had voted out, even if I were six feet under by then?

Europe has already fallen. The war is happening right now.

That's probably true.

Nope, mindlessly silly.