On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 09:52:03 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/7/2016 9:34 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/06/2016 8:52 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 16:54:17 -0600, wrote:

On 01/06/2016 4:43 PM, OFWW wrote:
...

The last couple years here we have had two growth seasons each year,
literally, played havoc with the veggies, but the tree's seemed to
handle it fine. It would be nice to core the tree and then core it
again just to see or verify what the tree did for those years. It
isn't common, but it is not unusual.
...

I'd venture _most_ didn't actually go through two fully dormant cycles
and wouldn't show up a second ring therefore but it would be interesting
to do a core sample, indeed...

Normally I wouldn't have thought so either, but we had a short hot
winter followed by some quick freezes, all the trees that were budding
and growing fruit, lost all their fruit an some leaves, then a mild
winter for a couple weeks, and then a repeat of the cycle. I was
thinking that the poor trees and plants must be getting confused
because or the strange weather sequences.

I had a great laugh through it all as the weather men and new people
were really hamming up the heat wave, and talking about the
seriousness of GW, and after a couple weeks of that going on the temp
dropped to below freezing then hovered down low and made them all look
a bit skittish for a while.

That's an el Nino cycle for ya'...

We've been thru the 5-6 years of severe (Cat IV on national drought
monitor like CA that you hear about; nobody much cares about "flyover
country") until the worm turned suddenly about first of June and have
been (by our standards, anyways, wet since). Included w/ the pattern is
the jet stream pattern that includes blocking the extreme Canadian cold
from the northern midwest/northeast...

They've been touting how this year is the "strongest since the '80s!!!!"
not bothering to mention they've only had tracking data from roughly
that time which is only 30 years; absolutely nothing in terms of overall
climate. Meanwhile, there are records that the Peruvian fishermen knew
of it in early 17th century and undoubtedly actually much earlier than
that so it's certainly nothing new; we just now are beginning to
understand how it affects global weather patterns.

There's a NOAA fella' in the Dodge City office finishing up his doctoral
dissertation who works the night shift and on occasion will write in
some depth on his work in the area in the "behind the scene" internal
discussion distributed as part of the workings behind the daily
forecast. Quite interesting how it's all so intertwined.

My hypothesis is that if one had the data one could show that in fact
the "Dirty 30's" dustbowl was tied in with a strong La Nina (the
opposite of the El Nino) which is associated with the strong jet stream
buckle to the north which shunts all the rain-producing t-storm
producing systems to the east of the western High Plains leaving us with
the similar situation we've just been through. IOW, imo there's
"nothing new under the sun"; we're just not a long-lived enough species
to be able to see the big picture in short term patterns and have fallen
into the trap of thinking we're more important than we are.

--
Exactly! Concerning not enough data to make a reasonable assumption
about the long term weather patterns.

This we do know, the weather is unpredictable and has been changing for
centuries.

Now that computers are every where every one is an expert on the weather
using the vast amount of data that has only recently become available to
everyone. I highly suspect that in 200 years future generations will
look at the global warming crisis somewhat like the Salem Witch trials.

Had we had access to computers and weather data 60 years ago like we
have in the last 30 or so years I'm certain that we would be looking at
the weather much differently. Thank goodness we did what we did to curb
global cooling in the 70's and 80's so that we would not all freeze.
There simply is not enough data to make anything close to accurate
assumptions about recent history weather patterns.

I find it ironic that in general we did not have these global weather
problems until we felt compelled to do something about them. Here is
where you should follow the money to see how conclusions have been
propped up.

There is just way too much to take into consideration to make any
assumption that anything we change can change the weather.

Is the weather getting warmer, probably. Is that a bad thing? Perhaps
the earth's weather is adjusting naturally to provide more or longer
growing seasons to supply food for the growing population. If we were
actually able to cool things down and shorten the growing seasons, would
we be able to grow enough food to feed the planet?

I think you both are dead on in this. When I was a kid I read a lot of
those old English classic novels, Like Heidi and her Grandpa, Daniel
Defoe's stuff, the books of the various countries and Ice skating on
the Danube and the like, all icy cold, etc. And then with all the talk
on GW, people mentioned the various ice ages, and in the 14-1600'a
there was a mini ice age, or was it 1200-?? Can't remember at the
moment, but those icy stories were tied in with the tale end of the
last mini ice age. Millions died not just from the freezing cold, but
the lack of food. Seems that right before that there was a GW period
which was so warm that food was growing where it wouldn't before, and
the oceans were calm because of it, and allowed the Phoenicians to
travel to the US in their reed boats, as well as the Vikings in their
ships. Populations spread and grew because of it all, but when the
mini ice age hit it was major misery for most everyone and brought
things to a screaming halt. Lack of food, lack of livable land and so
on.

So in a way those books were recordings of the weather pattern and
cycle and if we all paid attention to history we wouldn't be crying
like Chicken Little.