On 12/28/2015 2:09 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 12/28/2015 12:58 PM, dpb wrote:
It's been studied extensively by all the research organizations in the
citrus-producing areas, both public and private if he'd just make use
of that
body of knowledge instead of seemingly thinking he's the first to have
thought
of it. 
Sheer arrogance and ignorance on your part! As I said elsewhe
No, simply stating fact...and, as said, have quite a bit of family
experience in the citrus/truck farming "bidness" from the '30s and on w/
mother's side of the family in the TX valley...
How many folks do you know who can do that IN THEIR BACK YARD?
Not many which is why I said it generally ain't agonna' be practical...
Which paragraph discusses impact of solar radiation on heat gain in a
residence? Or, "comfort factor" compensation for air infiltration?
Where does it tell me the economic tradeoff of using evaporative cooling
on a particular day vs. refrigeration? Or, the penalty of using
refrigeration *after* evaporative cooling?
Where does it tell me about the (affordable) COTS control system that I
can PURCHASE to do these things?
Well, that's a completely different kettle o' fish than citrus grove
freeze protection which is all I had addressed...
I'd *really* not like to have to "reinvent the wheel" so would greatly
appreciate those pointers! :
So, please tell me -- and the rest of those reading -- exactly *who* has
"thought of it" before?!
I guess *your* problem is failing to understand that not all problems
*have* been "thought of before". Or, having too narrow a concept of
what you can actually *do* with "data" once you have it! It's a
relatively common problem: people who can't see past their own
experience...
I spent some 40 yr of engineering consulting doing data collection and
usage so I've a pretty good idea of what can be done w/ data...from
online coal ash and elemental analyzers to pulverized coal flow w/
acoustic noise inference via nonlinear processing of the chaotic (as
opposed to stationary stochastic) flow patterns to more conventional
vibration and such including online heat-rate performance monitoring for
fossil plants (much more related to your HVAC question albeit on a much
larger scale and with temperatures and pressures a little higher!
In the specific areas you've mentioned here I don't know offhand who's
done what; granted, but that wasn't what I thought you were interested
in as noted above.
While it's a reasonable conjecture, I'd venture 90% of homeowners will
get far more "bang for the buck" simply by adding insulation or the
other routine energy-efficiency changes than what could gain by dynamic
control such as you posit above.
Similar to the questions who can do serious control of freeze
mitigation in their backyard, how many houses have both evaporative
_and_ refrigerating cooling systems?
I'd still guess there's quite a bit of useful work having been done and
for your purposes worrying about a degree or two of error in that
external temperature is also a case of misplaced concern since as you
mention it isn't that critical to a precise degree what an internal
temperature is if it's somewhere in the mid-range of the comfort zone
most folks will be happy enough...
https://www.ashrae.org/resources--publications/bookstore/thermal-comfort-tool?utm_source=promotion&utm_medium=landingpage&u tm_campaign=86179&utm_term=86179&utm_content=86179
As for the predictions you're talking about, application of the load
calculations manual would basically provide all the information required
to evaluate alternatives as far as input costs, etc., if applied to a
specific structure and installed systems as opposed to the sizing
calculation itself. But, all the basic heat loss/input computations are
outlined to do it...
I'm sure there are optimizing controls already for commercial buildings
altho not my area of direct expertise but again I doubt it'll be found
to be cost-beneficial to this degree for single-family residential
applications. Beyond the thermostat runback at night and converting
old, low-efficiency furnaces/boilers to higher-efficiency units and the
aforementioned closing up of other heat/cooling loss venues, the
remainder is, in my estimation, likely to be found to be in the noise
level of actual cost/benefit.
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