DIYbanter - View Single Post

Don Y[_3_]

On 12/3/2015 12:36 PM, wrote:

I repeat--

But have you done the simple expedient of swapping out extension cords
yet?

(sigh) Sorry, but *I* can make a giant list of all possible combinations
and permutations or circuit breakers, circuit breaker TYPES, extension
cords, number of strings, WHICH strings, internal wiring, ambient
temperature, time between applications of loads, etc. ...

then, try ALL of those variations to find the one(s) that work and don't.

That's not troubleshooting. That's what (inept) mechanics/plumbers/PC
technicians/doctors/etc. do day to day:

sorry but that is a part of troubleshooting Swapping around parts that you
already have can be a very efficeint troubleshooting technique.

No, that's the lazy approach. That's the way auto mechanics start swapping
things (charging you for each "new replacement" -- even if it didn't FIX
the problem) out until they stumble on the "solution". Do they ever
work their way backwards, undoing all of the other (faulty) changes
they introduced along the way to definitively identify/verify that the
"final change" was, in fact, the real reason? Do they swap the "bad"
part back in to verify that the problem manifests, again?

This is just a lack of deductive reasoning capability. I see it in
how folks troubleshoot electronic designs, software, etc. all the time.
"Let's try this..." Then, if the device/program *appears* to work,
they content themselves with having "fixed it" -- with no basis for
belief that it is, in fact, (permanently/actually) "fixed".

"Well, it's working NOW..."

I guess in grade school we were taught "The Scientific Method"; form
an hypothesis, construct an experiment to test that hypothesis, then
apply it and verify the results.

And, you can run that process forwards or backwards, with predictable
outcomes in each case.

E.g., note that when I unplugged the lamps this morning and re-plugged
them, they didn't trip the breaker. Yet, plugging them "cold" caused
an instant trip. So, modify the experiment -- wait *10* seconds
before re-plugging. Then, 2 minutes.

Ah, now I have new information to assist in formulating a theory
(what, in the circuit, can "account for time"?)

If we told you to go out and buy all new lights and new extension cords and
new breakers and replace them all, that would not be troubleshooting, that
would be shot-gunning.

If you prefer a more analytical approach, then go out and buy a dual trace
oscilloscope, clamp on current probe and other assorted test equipment and
we get then gather enough data to decide exactly what the problem is without
swapping parts.

You'll note I lamented the loss of my HiPot tester, up-thread??

Sounds like we have nothing more to offer you in the way of help.

Agreed. I'll return to my original plan of diagnosis.

Be sure to come back and let us know what the answer turns out to be.

I'll look into it this weekend. The lights won't be needed, again, for
several days so I can spend my time on other things that are more pressing.