On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 12:15:07 PM UTC-4, westom wrote:
On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 11:37:36 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
Two obvious fallacies there.

Only fallacies are same myths and lies from a technically naive denier. If hundreds of thousands of joules are not earthed at the service entrance, then a destructive surge (even if smaller) easily overwhelms protection inside appliances. Even surges too tiny to overwhelm that protection can still destroy near zero protectors. In rare cases, even create house fires.

Nice job editing and avoiding the issues, while bringing up more nonsense.
Still not explained, how can the surge protection inside the appliance
ever work if a direct, short connection to earth is required? Somehow
it's possible for the smaller, more limited surge protection inside the
appliance to work, but according to you the same, more robust protection
inside a plug-in surge protector can't work, because it has no direct
earth ground.



If a protector is adjacent to appliances, then it can only block or absorb a surge. It cannot connect to what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules.

Again, the IEEE guide to surge protection says you're wrong:

"An additional feature of the point-of-use protectors, if they are properly used (see
Section 6), is that all surge currents which come in from AC wiring and signal
connections (both active wires and grounds) are disposed of via the AC (green
wire) ground, back to the building ground. So downstream from the multiport
point-of-use protector, there are no large circulating surge currents to damage
equipment or interfere with operation."





Adjacent protectors even make appliance damage easier.

Funny then that IEEE and NIST both recommend their use. Including
Martzloff, who you like to cite out of context.




Another example: a surge on a hot (black) wire might be connected to the safety ground (green) wire. (Safety ground is not earth ground). Now that surge has completely bypassed protection inside a computer's PSU.

Yep, that would be a good thing too, for most of us in the real world.
We'd rather the surge go through the $20 plug-in surge protector than
the computer.



Now that surge is connected directly into a computer's motherboard. He calls that protection?


Say what? You just told us that the plug-in shunted the surge to ground.
The plug-in surge protector has the hot, neutral, ground all clamped
together, so that the potential rise is limited. If it's a multiport
one, which it needs to be for a PC connected to phone, cable, etc, then
those lines going through it are also clamped. There is no damaging
voltage potential going to the PC.



Oh, that cannot happen because it is called a surge protector. Please.

A technically naive naysayer has no idea why Martzloff, et al repeatedly warn of damage BECAUSE a protector is adjacent to appliances ... and too far from earth ground. Because a 'whole house' solution was not installed.

Martzloff, in his own words:

"Plug-in Surge Protectors

This is the easiest solution and there are a wide variety of brands
in the stores. These come in two forms: a box that plugs directly
into a wall receptacle or a strip with a power cord and multiple outlets."





How many times must the word impedance be ignored before a technically naive naysayer decides to learn what it is?

It would seem you're the naïve one. Funny thing this impedance. In your
bizarre world, it's unidirectional. A lightning strike hits the utility
pole and magically there is no impedance to keep most of it from ever
getting to an appliance inside the house. It's BANG, hundreds of thousands
of joules, the whole damn lightning strike, are at you PC. In your
world impedance only works on the returnpath of the surge, from the
plug-in surge protector back to earth. Reality is that impedance
limits the surge on the way in too.






Safety ground clearly is not earth ground. Define how many times with numbers? And still the naysayer cannot tell the difference. Technical ignorance and a vendetta against learning is evident.

Take it up with the5 IEEE engineers:

"An additional feature of the point-of-use protectors, if they are properly used (see
Section 6), is that all surge currents which come in from AC wiring and signal
connections (both active wires and grounds) are disposed of via the AC (green
wire) ground, back to the building ground. So downstream from the multiport
point-of-use protector, there are no large circulating surge currents to damage
equipment or interfere with operation."