On 10/17/2015 8:18 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| Why is ANY of this surprising? And, why is MS's *belated*
| adoption of this such an issue of concern?

It's of concern to me. The behavior is indecent and
uncivilized. Don't you care to help build and maintain
a healthy society? We're currently in a transition period
where we have to figure out how new technologies will
be used. Do you want to leave those decisions to amoral
corporations whose only interest is in getting you to buy
more stuff? Don't we all deserve better than that? And
that's just the current issue. With near-total surveillance
between business and gov't we're getting into unknown
territory. We're inadvertently redefining human rights.

Sure! And, besides grumbling, wat do you suggest folks do about
this? And, what portion of their lifestyle should they sacrifice
to take on this effort??

I talk about it, also, because I'm in a position to know
more than most people do. A big part of the success of
spyware/targetted advertising is that it's done in a non-
intrusive way, so that most people don't actually see it

People, for the most part, are incapable of understanding
the ideas behind "big data" -- except on only the grossest
levels ("young males are more likely to have car accidents").
If you explained the sorts of inferences that could *reasonably*
(not "certainly") be made from the data available, they would
probably not believe you. Or, would fail to see the potential
"threat" involved.

I have been developing an automation system, here. It watches
the occupants of the house and makes estimates as to their
activities and, from that, deductions about their likely
*needs* and requests.

E.g., if you get out of bed in the middle of a "sleep period",
chances are, you're headed to the bathroom. If it's dark,
then turning on *some* light would probably be helpful to
the occupant!

What value might the fact that I'm *routinely* awake at night
have to someone? If you looked at (say) 300,000,000 people
and correlated sleeping habits with cancer risk or likelihood
of buying a particular record album, does that have value?
If you noticed that folks who bought rocky road ice cream AND
listened to Motley Crue were more likely to develop type 2
diabetes, does that have value? Or, people who visit a shooting
range "religiously" and attend church services "most of the time"
correlated with incidents of domestic violence? etc.

working. I figure that if they care then they have a right
to know. They also have a right to know and understand
that the products they've been using are being redefined.
It's not just a matter of whether you mind Microsoft
doing market research by spying on you. Microsoft is
actually taking the product out of your hands.

No. *You* are the product.

[big snip -- time for me to head off to bed]

All of the examples above are ways to improve privacy.
Most involve very little effort or inconvenience. All that's
required is that we pay attention a bit and not always
grab the cheapest price or easiest convenience no matter
what.

Your solution of "just don't use it" can work to some
extent, but when there are no other options that's not
a solution. Clearly you think there are already no other
options, since your suggestion is presented snidely. All
I'm saying is that it doesn't cost you much to sit up,
pay attention, and make deliberate decisions, rather than
simply throwing your hands up because it's easy.

I think there *are* "other options". But, most of them
require some sort of initiative on the part of the "consumer".
IME, people are lazy. They opt for the easy way out. So,
can be exploited because of this!

I don't use charge cards unless it's a purchase that I need to
"insure" or suspect I may have problems returning. So, unless
you coordinate camera imagery of me at a variety of different
stores, you are unlikely to understand what I purchase and when
I purchase it.

I can't remember the last time I wrote a check. And, my checks
don't bear my address or phone number (I typically only use them
for transfering funds between accounts or to pay off credit cards).
Certainly no need to use them to buy a quart of milk!

I don't let my workstations talk to the outside world -- yet
*still* benefit from "Windows Updates" (I just have to take
extra steps to acquire and apply them "offline"! Far LESS
convenient than Joe Consumer who just lets his machine fetch
and install them itself).

I use a variety of different search engines so no *one* sees
the entire complement of "subjects of interest" to me.

I can't avoid having a rather unique browser fingerprint -- because
I choose not to enable the "features" that most folks rely on
(e.g., Jscript, flash, etc.). So, I draw attention to myself
by "being different". Given how many Zetabytes of storage google
has, I'm sure they can set aside a megabyte or two devoted *solely*
to me -- even if they don't know my name (yet)!

I can't legally obfuscate my license plate while driving. OTOH,
I *walk* to many places (for the exercise). So, no tie in to the
vehicle (that I'm *not* driving).

I can't prevent the USPS from imaging my correspondence. But, don't
have much *to* image (bills -- which are usually pretty easy to
GUESS at; or, ask my letter carrier).

I'm careful as to what I say in email and particularly so when
corresponding with gmail addresses and folks that I know who forward
their "other" accounts to/through gmail.

I don't use google phone (of course, they can listen in to your
conversation "for quality purposes" as well as note who you
communicate with).

Google thinks I live a few miles from "here" -- I've not bothered
to correct their error.

We don't have a cable subscription so no one knows what broadcast
media we "consume" -- nor when we consume it. (even my MythTV
doesn't subscribe to a "schedule/guide" service so no information
leaks that way).

Our "discount cards" at various stores have no names assigned to
them. So, they can figure out that "customer XYZ bought these things
on this day and these other things on this other day" -- but, can't
associate that with *me*. And, if the card doesn't give me a discount
on the items that I've purchased, it stays in my wallet (so, you don't
see the "non-sale items" that I purchase).

My automation system goes to great lengths to do things "locally"
so *it* doesn't leak information to a casual observer (that, in
the case of a machine intelligence, can have *infinite* patience
to gather information about my behavior/interests)

OTOH, I can't stop my city from contracting portions of its services
out to third parties. And, in doing so, disclosing my transactions
regarding those services.

While each of these are "trivial" inconveniences, they are,
nonetheless, inconveniences. Most people, IME, don't want to bother
with even *this* level of inconvenience.

Here's an interesting experiment, next time you "move":
take out a POBox near your new home and arrange for ALL
mail to be sent there. Then, watch the various search
engines and services to see how long it takes for your *real*
address to show up.