"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
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On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:50:54 +0100, Jim Thomas wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
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On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 23:29:34 +0100, Jim Thomas wrote:
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On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 04:54:09 +0100, Jim Thomas
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 00:14:05 +0100, Jim Thomas
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On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 21:52:29 +0100, Jim Thomas
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On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 21:26:56 +0100, Jim Thomas
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On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 20:06:41 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:
On 14/09/2015 15:12, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 02:48:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:
On 13/09/2015 20:22, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 20:19:43 +0100, dennis@home
wrote:
On 13/09/2015 20:11, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
I'm right, if you think I'm not, prove it. A sensor
needs
power
to
activate the relay. It cannot have this until its
source
circuit
is
made live, and you switched that off. All the other
sensor
can
do
is
connect live to the output of the relay contact of the
first
sensor.
This will not power up the first sensor so its relay
remains
open.
If you ignore the circuit to the lights and any manual
override
switch.
Only the light in question could become live, nothing
else.
And let's say someone wanted to work on the switched
live -
adding
an
additional lamp perhaps?
They'd have checked neither PIR was turning the thing on.
Why
would
you
assume they were on the same circuit?
So if we apply that logic, before touching anything we need
to
check
every light switch, PIR, FCU and anything else with a
switch
on
it,
on
any circuit, just in case some clueless PHucker decided to
wire
it
up
to
the lamp as well.
Does your horse need feeding?
What a stupid train of thought.
We'll see...
Both PIRs activate the outside light you're working on, so
you
check
both.
Why would you check the bedroom light switch
Because with fools like you around, anything
is possible with borrowed neutrals etc.
If the device works, it was done correctly.
Not if the fool has borrowed a neutral and
only the most obvious circuit is disabled.
The device works, what more do you want?
One that is done safely so that when it fails,
as it inevitably will sometime, someone who
isn't as careful as Adam won't get killed fixing
it when they have done the most obvious
thing and turned just the circuit that appears
to be connect to it off before fixing it.
Wimp.
Makes no sense to kill someone else.
Their problem for not being careful.
That's the way most european and third
world countries do their electrical systems.
Which is why they do better than us at a lot of things.
Nope, the krauts do better than you lot at almost everything
but don't do their electrical systems like that.
The Krauts are overly pedantic about everything.
Not about toilet 'humour'
Explain.
Krauts are notorious for being into toilet
humour and they aren't pedantic about that.
China for example is leading the world economy
Like hell it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China
Doesn't say it is leading the world economy.
"world's second largest economy" - near enough.
You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.
because "developed" countries waste money on safety.
Nope, because they pay MUCH lower wages than the west does.
Because the cost of living is lower, because they're not all paying for
safety in every product.
Nope, because the standard of living is way below what it is in the west.
I disagree.
You are completely irrelevant. Its true anyway.
Yes, you can certainly turn the entire house off
when doing anything to the electrical system,
but it makes a lot more sense to not use more
than one circuit for a particular light and to not
borrow neutrals.
If you have two lighting circuits, just turn them both off.
You don't know whether some fool like you has
borrowed a neutral from a non lighting circuit.
Unlikely to be nearby.
Bull****.
Lights are on the ceiling, sockets are near the floor.
Irrelevant to where the wiring to them goes.
And think of the time you save borrowing a neutral.
Think of the time you save when dead.
Wimp. A bit of juice won't kill you.
It clearly does kill plenty.
Survival of the fittest.
Survival of the most stupid in your case.
Fortunately you don't breed so you genes will be flushed where they belong.
when you know that doesn't activate it,
But don't know what some fool like you has done with borrowed
neutrals
etc.
That's what a multimeter is for.
Not possible to use one when walking past the PIRs.
Why do you think that?
**** all who even have a multimeter have one with
a max min function or even know that can be used for.
What cheap **** meter do you have?!
I have a Fluke 19, but **** all have a meter anything like that.
My 20 year old meter has it ffs.
**** all have a meter that does.
Even if you don't, you can set it to bleep if there's a voltage.
**** all have a meter that does.
They should.
Makes a lot more sense to turn the entire house off instead.
A decent meter is a basic tool, like a screwdriver.
**** all even know how to use a basic multimeter, let alone a
decent one which has max min or even how to use those functions.
Even someone as stupid as you knows how to turn the entire house off.
You call me stupid, yet I can use a multimeter. You seem to think this
requires intelligence.
Nope, just that most don't know how to use one.
Most don't know how knit either.
Doesn't require any intelligence either.
You don't need to know how to use a multimeter,
Corse you do.
it's as easy as riding a bike.
Mate of mine is one of the best mechanics around.
Cant use one, gets me to do that stuff for him.
And borrowed neutrals don't endanger you when working on the
lights.
Wrong.
You test for lives with the multimeter.
That assumes that you know how to use one to do that.
Most of those who work on that sort of thing don't
and don't even have one so it makes a lot more
sense to not allow borrowed neutrals or to use
more than one circuit when you have more than
one PIR controlling the light.
Anyone who knows enough to fix a light has a meter.
Wrong, as always.
They don't cost much nowadays.
Those with a max min function which are
safe to use on the mains aren't that cheap.
All multimeters take mains voltage.
Very dangerously with the worst of them.
Rubbish.
Fact.
I've never even felt a tingle using mine for mains, including three
phase.
It ain't about tingles.
Well I'm not dead.
More's the pity.
And max min is available on all but the very ****tiest ones.
And **** all who can manage to wire a light even know
how to use the max min function in those in that situation.
It's as simple as operating a toaster.
Pigs arse it is.
Select volts to measure volts and put the probes on live and
neutral/earth.
Nothing like a toaster when you don't have to do anything like that.
And it's a lot quicker to just turn the entire house
off and much safer with an intermittent fault too.
Easier to work on it live, as I often do. Just don't touch the bare
ends.
So why do you fart around with a max
min multimeter walking past the PIRs ?
I wouldn't. I was suggesting that's what someone would do if they wanted
to work on a dead circuit.
Makes a lot more sense to turn the house off.
You're clearly lying thru your teeth.
and you know there's nobody else in the house to press it?
Irrelevant if some fool like you has done
something stupid with borrowed neutrals etc.
Even turning the entire house off before touching anything
isn't going to protect you with fools like you around who
could have done anything, including steal power.
Then never assume, carry a meter or volt probe with you.
Carrying the meter or volt probe wont get you
anywhere useful when walking past both PIRs.
Why do you believe this?
Because even you should have noticed that you
can't actually see what the voltage at the light is
doing when you walk past the PIR with the meter
or volt probe in your hand.
You sit it so you can see it,
Not even possible with most lights with more than one PIR.
Use a mirror.
Much easier to turn the whole house off
before doing any work on that config.
Which means the borrowed neutral and using the other circuit isn't a
problem.
But can kill those who don't turn the whole house off.
Survival of the fittest.
Nope, not once they have already spawned their offspring.
Chances are that will half the time not be the case.
Even sillier than you usually manage.
Fortunately you never have.
Different reason.
Same result.