On 9/27/2015 4:38 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/26/2015 4:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

OTOH, most religions aren't "casual undertakings". All require/expect
some degree of commitment. How do you *expose* a child (formative
years) without risking him/her being "conditioned" by the experience?

You can't. All you can do is the best you can do and allow them to
make
up their own minds.

You've avoided the question! :

LOL It's the truth! If you expose a child to anything you risk them
being conditioned. OTOH, if you don't expose them to something, it could
have a similar result - conditioning to avoid X or Y.

Exactly. Unlike folks who claim to "know god's will", I acknowledge
that there are *many* (most?) things that I don't know! So, my
"answers" only apply to me -- I wouldn't dream of imposing them
on another. I will gladly *share* them with "capable adults"
who can come to rational decisions as to whether or if they
want to adopt them.

But, when you're raising kids you're the adult in the relationship and
you have to make many choices on behalf of that child prior to their
being mature enough to make those choices for themselves. If you have a
belief system, that's what you teach them by your own actions. Those
actions can be where you participate actively in showing them what you
believe by "doing" something with them, or it can be by instructing
them, or just by your example of everything unspoken that you do that
they witness. If you believe in "God's will" (one way or another),
you're going to relay that belief to those kids regardless of your
actions or inaction. IMO, I think it's better to be open and just tell
them what you believe and then allow them to ponder the subject and come
to their own conclusions. That doesn't mean that you don't take them to
church, or resist DOING anything with them because you don't want to
influence their belief systems. Once you have kids and begin raising
them it's too late and you're going to influence them whether you want
to or not.

But, kids don't have that background or critical skill set.

That's why it's better for adults (most of the time) to be raising kids
instead of kids raising kids. At the same time just because a kid isn't
an adult it doesn't mean that they can't learn and participate in
critical thinking or decision making. You teach that, and you can teach
it on an age related basis and kids can and do learn that skill set.

Chances are, any house of worship will be
a "drive" from home. When they are young (e.g., 5, 6, 10, etc.) do I
expect them to hoof it to the church? Do I expect them to take the
initiative to explore the possible offerings? Do *I* take them to each
service? How do I explain my presence *in* that service given my own
personal beliefs? Do I *hide* my beliefs from them? etc.

Just be honest if/when those questions are asked of you. You don't have
to know all the answers, and it's OK to tell them you haven't got all
the answers.


Most kids (even teenagers! : ) look to parents as their primary source
of "authoritative information". These are the primary adults with which
they interact. And, the adults with whom they've developed the most
detailed relationships and "assessments".

In a perfect world, but when kids get to be teens the bigger influence
on them are their peers and if the parent hasn't established or taught
their kids a good moral/ethical baseline of behavior before their teens,
then the parent can and often times are screwed as far as being an
effective influence over their own teens.

So, whatever a parent says carries far too much weight -- for something
of which the parent isn't *sure* (even if the parent *thinks* they are
"sure enough" for their OWN needs). Who's pitching/defending the
"opposing view"? Surely *they* (kids) can't be counted on to formulate
logical counterarguments!

Yes, they can if you teach that skill from the time they're young enough
to understand cause and effect.

I.e., I have to assume some sort of ACTIVE role if they are to be
exposed to religion/spirituality at all. Do I start offering
a "blessing" before each meal? (How do I explain that given my
personal beliefs?) Do i try to get them to hitch a ride with a
neighbor -- or *different* neighbors/family/etc. depending on the
religion du jour?

You just do what you feel is right for you to do concerning those
things. Kids will understand if you aren't sure about something.


I'm not sure. At the very least, that would vary with the kid *and* the
parent(s).

Every kid is different, so you figure it out.

I was raised RC and invested more time in studying the "faith" than
most kids would.

I wasn't raised with any belief in God, and didn't go to church. My
parents believed in God, but they didn't take us to church.

All along, finding things that were "discomforting"
to a rational mind: "if *this*, then something-that-seems-wrong".

Me too. The think about being so dependent on "rational thinking" is
that many things we feel and experience have nothing to do with
"rational" anything. So trying to rationalize everything is like trying
to put a round peg in a square hole. You can whittle it down 'til it
fits, but it still doesn't REALLY fit.

It was only when I was old enough to assert myself, my opinions and
my own beliefs that I actually said, "this is utter nonsense".
Despite the fact that the rest of my (extended) family still
subscribed to what I considered to *be* nonsense!

IMO, "utter nonsense" is so based on personal experiences and how people
learn, or are taught by various input, and how they've learned to
process that input. If you make a decision that when X happens, then Y
is most always going to be how you respond to X, then you've conditioned
yourself to respond a certain way the rest of your life to the point
that X will always be "utter nonsense" regardless of whether it truly is
"utter nonsense". If we get to the point we're not open for other
responses to X, then we've become closed minded to X. If you think
about it, X will never be exactly the same X as when you made your
decision originally on how you'd respond to X. How do you know that X
will always be identical to the X you judged to be nonsense? Are you
really open to new ideas/conclusions or are you stagnant based on old
information?

Did they actually *buy* this? Or, simply put up with it -- and
impose it on the *next* generation (out of laziness?)? If they
don't *genuinely* believe, then aren't they doing an even bigger
disservice (to their kids) than believing in something that may
NOT be The Truth?

What "THEY" do really doesn't have to affect how you made decisions. Right?

--
Maggie