On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:43:07 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy wrote:

OK, you prove my point :-)

as long as what we are saying is clarified that is good

most posts here meander on and on with so many misunderstandings
along the way that the main point left on a tributarity near the start
and was never found again

You're defining efficient as "produce the minimum amount of
residual for a given amount of input".

For power plants, a more common definition of efficient is
"produce the maximum amount of electricity for a given amount
of fuel". Plasma doesn't score all that well by that
definition.

well i wonder because the syngas byproducts may change the efficiency

remains to be seen though

also the recovery of raw materials would have to be calculated into the
equation

In that case I meant the cost to create the facility. I'm
not clear on why a plasma plant is a lot more expensive than
a simple incinerator, but they are.

incinerators burn organic material
plasma is at 10,000 F so requires more expense to construct

Bootstrap is a misnomer, I think. There is a continuous energy
requirement to maintain the plasma. As far as I can see, the
energy required to create the plasma initially isn't particularly
larger compared to the running requirement. In both cases it's
fairly large compared to the energy output, altho it appears the
bigger the system the better the net output becomes.

the other post i linked to an article where they just started a 25ton/day
plasma system in oregon

as always it is not a simple comparison to make
incinerate vs. plasma

plasma produces some interesting byproducts

For power, or for hazardous waste disposal? As I say, I think

i think only trash-to-power

Yes, that's true. Indeed, many landfills already have methane
extraction plants, which is burned for power; that's a form of
mining.

upcycling maybe

I think we're pretty much screwed on buried hazardous waste.
Once it starts leaking there's no alternative other than digging
up and cleaning thousands of tons of dirt, and that's never
going to be a net source of energy.

i think we have the responsibility to clean up those sites that are ruining
beautiful environments via leakage

not sure what happens to dirt when exposed to plasma