On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:15:32 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:57:04 -0500, "." wrote:

On 9/19/2015 12:46 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:36:27 -0500, "." wrote:

Passenger car testing of any type has ALWAYS been a scam
and is enacted for generating revenue. Nothing more, nothing
less. "Unsafe" cars have NEVER been a significant proximate
cause of accidents nor does smog testing of these vehicles
lead to measurably cleaner air. These two concerns are best
addressed at time of manufacture.
I will respectfully dissagree - with qualifications.

In the early years of safety checking, at least in Ontario, the
initial passs rate was quite low - and the requirement that a cat pass
a safety check when changing ownership took a LOT of dangerous crap
off the road.

If only there were any documentation to support that claim.

Well, as a mechanic back then, I can assure you I failed a LOT of
dangerous cars, repaired many of them, and scrapped almost as many.

Annual safety checks in Ontario only affect commercial
vehicles - and again there is a pretty high failure rate - and since
selective enforcement has been in place the number of wheels coming
off commercial vehicles and killing drivers of other vehicles has
dropped SIGNIFICANTLY. Enforcement is the key.

My comment referred only to individual owned passenger cars.

Which here in Ontario only require safety checks for transfer, or if
older than a certain age, depending on the insurance company, to get
or maintain insurance coverage.

As for emission testing - in the early years it had merit. There were
a LOT of "gross poluters" on our roads - and it was very simple to
defeat emission controls and change the calibration of an rngine (by
adjusting timing, rejetting carbs etc)

It still is.

Tell me how the average hack can adjust the timing on his 2002 Ford
Taurus 3.0 32 valve V6??? Or even adjust the mixture?

so that what left the
manufacturer and what was on the road were not necessarilly the same.

And those that in any manner overrode emission controls were
an insignificant percentage of the motoring public.

You would be surprised how many Olds 350 rockets back in the mid
seventies had the timing significantly altered to eliminate
overheating when pulling a trailer, or how many "super six" mopars had
the carburetion and timing adjusted off-spec to get rid of
"driveability problems" - and how many "lean burn" mopars were
"converted" to non-lean-burn without changing the camshaft (which was
required if you were going to be anywhere CLOSE to passing emissions)
and how many AIR systems were removed from GM engines - and how many
EGR systems were disconnected ---- just for starters. (under the
mistaken idea that they could get better mileage by simply removing
them)

The numbers WERE significant.

With today's computer controlled vehicles, unleaded gas, etc, the VAST
majority of vehicles pass, even when 20 years old - if reasonably
maintained, and the OBD2 only testing is a total farce and nothing but
a money-grab -

Safety shecks for vehicle transfer and annually for commercial
vehicles is both a consumer protection AND safety issue - and worth
continuing. (along with "selective enforcement" on the roads - see a
"questionable" vehicle - pull it over and inspect it for basic safety

+1 My experience exactly.

PA had twice yearly inspections but now has yearly . I remember all the
uproar over what the garages had to buy, the 3 gas analyzers, dynamometers,
leased or privately owned... It was a circus. I think it was a politicians
dream. (It was in NJ).

I remember customers that had notorious vehicles with bad emissions; blowing
blue smoke, heavy fuel smell, missing engines. A lot of "beaters".

Then the lead issue. I don't know if lead in gas was harmful or not but that
train has left the station. My observation is the air is "better" but is
that because of cars or the fact PA is ground zero of the "rust belt" and
manufacturing has left?

My gripe is that counties around major city's have testing while the rest of
the state doesn't. What, the wind doesn't blow through the whole state?

There are also exemptions if the cost of repairs exceed a threshold.

Claire would remember PCV valves and tune ups...
When I was a kid, 50 some years ago, my family would go down to Los
Angeles from the S.F. Bay Area region a few times a year to visit my
grandparents. I can remember sitting in the car at a stoplight and not
being able to see the light one block away because the air pollution
was so bad. The Bay Area smog wasn't as bad but there were still many
days when the hills only a few miles away were obscured by the smog.
The smog was primarily from auto exhaust. The population, people and
cars both, of the L.A. and Bay Areas is much greater today than 50
years ago as are the hours that car engines are running but the air
is much cleaner now, primarily because cars pollute much less now.
Well, at least the components of the car exhaust that cause smog that
were emitted from cars is way down. As far as lead is concerned it has
been shown statistically that the IQs of children living in the areas,
cities mostly, that exposed them to the then comparitively high levels
of airborne lead were lower than the same type of populations today.
Other neurological damage caused by atmospheric lead also afflicted
children the most. Today, with the much lower amount of lead in the
environment, these neurological deficits occur much less often. So
even though it is pointless now to argue whether lead should be
removed from gasoline it is a good thing we did.
Eric