On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 16:32:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:26:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:51:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:09:09 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:
On 9/17/2015 5:05 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 21:01:20 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:
On 9/16/2015 5:48 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 19:48:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 16:34:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:13:43 -0500, RD Sandman
rdsandman[remove]comcast.net wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote in
:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 06:43:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
"ĄJones" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:12:17 -0400, in
talk.politics.guns "Jim
Wilkins" wrote:
If we all have guns you are back at verbal
discussion.
Yup. And we kill about 30,000 people a year in our
"discussions".
Jones
"We?" Do you deal drugs?
If we all have guns, some of those "we" people discuss
with
bullets
and kill a lot of the other "we's."
Not 30,000.
Are we negotiating over numbers? g
You know what I'm saying, RD. If we all have guns, we
don't
all
decide
we'll "discuss things," contrary to what Jim (I think)
says.
That's
a
spinoff from Heinlein's brainless assertion, "an armed
society is
a
polite society," which is demonstrably a pile of
bull****.
If that were true, we wouldn't have the highest
gun-crime
rate in
the
developed world. Some people -- quite a few, some of
whom
appear
in
the news every day -- decide that their guns are for
shooting
people,
and they follow through. They show little inclination to
discuss
things when they have a gun to do their talking for
them.
Let's not get into a silly discussion about this. You
know
the
facts.
--
Ed Huntress
We know the facts are that the mayhem is concentrated in
urban
ghettos
that overwhelmingly Democratic city leaders are unable or
unwilling
to
control, and instead of addressing the problems their
bleeding-heart
policies and inept neglect created they scream that rural
conservatives are the root cause of urban lawlessness.
I've always been curious: Why is the gun-suicide rate 50%
higher in
rural areas than in cities?
Here's one from 2004, covering the whole country:
"Methods. We analyzed 584629 deaths from 1989 to 1999
assigned
to
3141
US counties, using negative binomial regressions and an
11-category
urban-rural variable.
"Results. The most urban counties had 1.03 (95% confidence
interval
[CI]=0.87, 1.20) times the adjusted firearm death rate of
the
most
rural counties. The most rural counties experienced 1.54
(95%
CI=1.29,
1.83) times the adjusted firearm suicide rate of the most
urban."
--
Ed Huntress
Duh, because cities restrict gun ownership?
In other words, you're saying that restricting gun ownership
reduces
suicide rates, right? It does seem to be born out by the
facts:
As we unfortunately have to keep noting, nsf eddy, guns do
not
cause
suicide, because access to guns does not cause people to
become
suicidal
in the first place.
Once again, nsf eddy: Japan has a much higher suicide rate
than
the US,
and they have almost no guns. Many other developed countries
with
virtually no guns also have higher suicide rates. Access to
guns
does
not cause suicidal thinking, and thus does not cause suicide.
There's the denial. We were looking at different parts of the
US,
and
you jump to Japan for a comparison.
Because Japan and S. Korea completely queer your claim that guns
"cause"
suicide. They don't.
I never made that claim. The claim is that, in the United
States,
suicide rates in high gun-owning areas correspond with higher
rates
of
suicide.
Don't put words in my mouth, Ball.
--
Ed Huntress
As your Governor recently pointed out, those rural areas have much
less local access to hospitals and extended-care facilities. We do
have substantial support for home care.
http://www.centralvna.org/
I worked in that field for a while, installing home stair lifts
and
repairing power wheelchairs.
-jsw
It isn't clear what relevance this has. Is there some evidence
that
the relative rates of medical care is somehow involved with
suicide
rates? Or, what is it you're saying?
--
Ed Huntress
I was wondering if I'd have to explain to you that access to one's
guns or numerous other means is far easier at home than in a medical
facility.
Medical statistics obscure the situation. "Died in the hospital" can
cover being pronounced dead there by a doctor since the ambulance
EMTs
aren't authorized to.
A very imaginative red herring! g
"Suicide, particularly among hospitalized medically ill patients, is
a
rare event. Most of the published reports on inpatient suicidal
behavior are derived from psychiatric hospitals and units. Although
there are no accurate data with which to directly compare rates of
suicide in medical versus psychiatric settings, it is likely that
suicide is more common on a psychiatric inpatient unit. In addition,
rates of suicide in the hospital, whether on a medical or
psychiatric
unit, appear to be substantially lower than community-based suicide
rates."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680547/
--
Ed Huntress
-jsw
At home a patient can have a month's supply (IIRC) of each mail-order
prescription, plus what they've squirreled away by not taking it all.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-top...se-death-rates
Over 20,000 suicides per year from prescribed medication! Removing
their guns won't stop them.
No, that's total deaths, not suicides. The number of suicides is
closer to 4,000.
For 2011, there were 41,149 suicides in the US. The number commited
with firearms was 21,175. Suffocation, 10,162. All poisoning,
including alcohol, prescription and illegal drugs, other poisons, and
combinations, 6,637.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
A study of just drugs and alcohol, conducted in 2005 - 2007, showed
greader detail. Of 26,902, total suicides from all causes that were
studied, 3,708 total (8% of males and 34% of females) died from
alcohol or drug overdose, including illegal drugs (a small
percentage). That study didn't count other poisons, gases, etc.
(pdf -- National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Suicides
Due to Alcohol and/or Drug Overdose)
In a managed facility they receive only one dose at a time and take it
under supervision. The staff is supposed to be alert for suicidal
patients and give them no opportunities.
Satisfied?
I am after double-checking your claims against the CDC data, which
shows that your claims are inaccurate.
--
Ed Huntress
-jsw