On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:45:22 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

I am out of this thread. You are impossible.
When e say it is dual band it is. If you can't believe why don't you ask
HP? So much hassle buying a laptop.

You have absolutely no idea what you're suggesting.

Here is the transcript!

Read it and then suggest I contact HP.

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The following information is a log of your session.
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Time Details
09/06/2015 08:15:30PM System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the
United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address
that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed."
09/06/2015 08:15:32PM System: "If you are looking for HP product
support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/
us/en/contact-hp/contact.html"
09/06/2015 08:15:34PM System: "If you still need US sales or ordering
assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be
with you shortly."
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM Session Started with Agent (Paige M)
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with
dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-
Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html"
09/06/2015 08:16:14PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the
hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige.
I've read your question and am ready to assist you."
09/06/2015 08:16:59PM Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if
the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be
glad to check on this for you."
09/06/2015 08:17:00PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M."
09/06/2015 08:17:45PM Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z
laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and
5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't
say!"
09/06/2015 08:18:04PM Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:"
09/06/2015 08:18:05PM Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/
ConfigureView?
storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&catEntryId=998656&quantity=1&color=Natural
+silver"
09/06/2015 08:18:42PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me
go and check it."
09/06/2015 08:20:08PM Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options
for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!

802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price
802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00
Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00"
09/06/2015 08:21:45PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience."
09/06/2015 08:23:06PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?"
09/06/2015 08:23:59PM Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and
Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R)
[1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz."
09/06/2015 08:24:38PM Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the
unit but not in the shipping."
09/06/2015 08:25:37PM Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though,
it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your
concern."
09/06/2015 08:25:49PM Agent (Paige M): "Ive checked all of my
resources and I'm still unable to validate this."
09/06/2015 08:25:54PM Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP
expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that
you have. Their hours of operation a 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain,
Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM €“ 10PM MT."
09/06/2015 08:26:21PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4
GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have
NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are
you sure about those specs? Th"
&nbsp ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well.
09/06/2015 08:27:27PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)"
09/06/2015 08:28:40PM Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you
can try calling."
09/06/2015 08:29:16PM Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions
if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still."
09/06/2015 08:29:31PM Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can
assist you with today?"
09/06/2015 08:30:29PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige
This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is
SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question.
The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I
can speak with? This is not a dif"
&nbsp ficult question.
09/06/2015 08:32:30PM Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?"
09/06/2015 08:33:15PM Ewald Bohm: "?"
09/06/2015 08:33:31PM Agent (Vann): "Hi!"
09/06/2015 08:35:14PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Thank you for trying to help me.
I am asking a simple question.
Do you need me to repeat the question?"
09/06/2015 08:36:41PM Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?"
09/06/2015 08:36:47PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here."
09/06/2015 08:36:53PM Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait."
09/06/2015 08:37:02PM Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session
with Paige."
09/06/2015 08:40:18PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat
anything.
Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether
the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz
bands.
Also, since"
&nbsp that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the
answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is
correct, or not.
Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic
(and these are EXTREMELY BASIC
&nbsp questions) computer questions.
09/06/2015 08:41:03PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have
questions, Ewald."
09/06/2015 08:41:05PM Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the
information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these
questions."
09/06/2015 08:41:47PM Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know
that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just
get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)."
09/06/2015 08:41:54PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website
product information is very limited."
09/06/2015 08:43:31PM Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and
that is for free."
09/06/2015 08:44:03PM Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the
product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip
code and state."
09/06/2015 08:45:12PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item
will be shipped and that the shipping is free.
Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available
for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both."
09/06/2015 08:45:30PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on
that."
09/06/2015 08:46:04PM Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources
are very limited to answer your question."
09/06/2015 08:46:16PM Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent
referred you to our product expert."
09/06/2015 08:46:25PM Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and
I will this to you."
09/06/2015 08:46:28PM Agent (Vann): "*answer."
09/06/2015 08:46:35PM Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes
of your time."
09/06/2015 08:46:41PM Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here."
09/06/2015 08:47:43PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald,"
09/06/2015 08:47:46PM Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that."
09/06/2015 08:48:10PM Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait."
09/06/2015 08:49:00PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the
decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/
n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card."
09/06/2015 08:49:58PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann"
09/06/2015 08:50:03PM Agent (Vann): "I found more information here."
09/06/2015 08:52:01PM Ewald Bohm: "oooPS.
Hi VAnn,
I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that
out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only
the "ac" card is 5GHz?"
09/06/2015 08:52:54PM Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that."
09/06/2015 08:53:17PM Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this
is based on something that I am not sure of."
09/06/2015 08:54:33PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi).
Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or
"ac" is also 5GHz."
09/06/2015 08:57:20PM Agent (Vann): "Thanks!"
09/06/2015 08:57:32PM Agent (Vann): "Let me check that."
09/06/2015 08:59:32PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can
do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at
a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question.
My question is whether th"
&nbsp e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz
or both.
Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually
an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer.
In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on
&nbsp the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask!
09/06/2015 09:00:18PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming
from."
09/06/2015 09:00:53PM Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the
marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent
description of each wi-fi options."
09/06/2015 09:04:48PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I
found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve
long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore,
I do appreciate that you are in"
&nbsp the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that.
I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this
laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that
"n" can be either (just not at the same time), w
&nbsp hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both
at the same time).
So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to
figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz
bands.
09/06/2015 09:04:55PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood
in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5
Ghz."
09/06/2015 09:05:26PM Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11
ac 2x2 ."
09/06/2015 09:05:35PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out
which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band."
09/06/2015 09:05:50PM Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz."
09/06/2015 09:06:10PM Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:06:18PM Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router
has a dual band?"
09/06/2015 09:08:41PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac"
card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM
whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands.
(I know that the "n" can make use"
&nbsp of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not
mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously).
But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and
"n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o
&nbsp nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an
AC1750.
09/06/2015 09:14:10PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas
(802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4
does not tell me what the bands are."
09/06/2015 09:17:33PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you
waiting."
09/06/2015 09:17:40PM Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..."
09/06/2015 09:18:06PM Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it
would be better you consult our product expert."
09/06/2015 09:18:23PM Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a
1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/"
09/06/2015 09:19:36PM Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated)
transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself
can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it
is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is
indicating the de"
&nbsp dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:20:46PM Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research
on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work."
09/06/2015 09:21:36PM Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http://
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...t-gen-80211ac-
wifi-for-dummies.pdf"
09/06/2015 09:21:58PM Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two
dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive.
But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that
they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT
using 2 d"
&nbsp ifferent frequencies.
09/06/2015 09:22:07PM Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..."
09/06/2015 09:22:53PM Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..."
09/06/2015 09:24:08PM Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums."
09/06/2015 09:24:09PM Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/
Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to-
find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523"
09/06/2015 09:24:31PM Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed
as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n."
09/06/2015 09:25:00PM Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10
of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim):
"In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan
-
dards, the number of send and receive antennas and
stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o"
&nbsp ne antenna
supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup
-
porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares
the performance of antenna and stream configurations
in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards"
09/06/2015 09:25:31PM Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of
antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency."
09/06/2015 09:26:15PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this
to our product expert and I shall email you the answer."
09/06/2015 09:26:38PM Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our
time and this is something that I cannot confirm."
09/06/2015 09:26:44PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn,
An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band.
That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the
question if the spec simply said what it should say!"
09/06/2015 09:26:48PM Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want
to get the answer of this."
09/06/2015 09:28:23PM Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert
with your questions."
09/06/2015 09:28:24PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In
the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first
line of page 11:
"Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and
5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the"
&nbsp 2.4 GHz frequency"
09/06/2015 09:28:35PM Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions
now so I can forward this now."
09/06/2015 09:28:54PM Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within
24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:29:09PM Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says
what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or
2.4GHz or both."
09/06/2015 09:29:14PM Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic
technical knowledge, Ewald."
09/06/2015 09:29:23PM Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..."
09/06/2015 09:30:12PM Agent (Vann): "Sure."
09/06/2015 09:32:36PM Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling
in my head."
09/06/2015 09:33:10PM Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three
available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/
Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz,
5GHz, or both.
I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o"
&nbsp r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that
the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both
(possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me
NOTHING about the frequency band!
In addition,
&nbsp I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per
channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2
dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive
antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH
&nbsp ING about the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:34:06PM Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what
you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:34:31PM Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to
answer by myself."
09/06/2015 09:34:57PM Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power
and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix
up in my head."
09/06/2015 09:35:06PM Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:36:01PM Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann,
I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will
await the response from your technical expert.
I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to
know what frequency the WiFi card operates in"
&nbsp - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1
or 2x2, etc.
I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the
FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web-
marketing team to let them know the
&nbsp ir web pages are missing critical information).
09/06/2015 09:36:55PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common
questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask
this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are."
09/06/2015 09:37:48PM Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer
immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this
number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer
any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation a 7:00
AM -"
&nbsp 10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM €“
10PM MT.
09/06/2015 09:38:34PM Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any
answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP
source."
09/06/2015 09:38:48PM Agent (Vann): "I only got the information
provided earlier from my research."
09/06/2015 09:39:15PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday
(and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so
I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:39:29PM Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer
to this address ."
09/06/2015 09:40:11PM Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I
am checking earlier with the upper management what services or
departments will be open tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:40:20PM Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email
within 24-48hrs."
09/06/2015 09:42:03PM Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I
just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering
the laptop on the web. I will await your email."
09/06/2015 09:42:16PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand."
09/06/2015 09:42:26PM Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make
things certain in your purchase."
09/06/2015 09:42:41PM Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further
assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?"
09/06/2015 09:43:17PM Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will
await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then
I will also try to call them."
09/06/2015 09:43:46PM Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end
this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns."
09/06/2015 09:43:52PM Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India,
so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!"
09/06/2015 09:43:53PM Ewald Bohm: "Ciao,"
09/06/2015 09:44:07PM Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further
research on this on my own to learn from it."
09/06/2015 09:44:14PM Agent (Vann): "You too."
09/06/2015 09:44:19PM Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today."
09/06/2015 09:44:25PM Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat
experienced."
09/06/2015 09:44:28PM Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us
with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our
products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific,
Monday- Sunday."
09/06/2015 09:44:32PM Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We
appreciate your business."
09/06/2015 09:44:34PM Session Ended
If you require further assistance, you may contact us at
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Time Details
09/06/2015 08:15:30PM System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the
United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address
that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed."
09/06/2015 08:15:32PM System: "If you are looking for HP product
support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/
us/en/contact-hp/contact.html"
09/06/2015 08:15:34PM System: "If you still need US sales or ordering
assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be
with you shortly."
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM Session Started with Agent (Paige M)
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with
dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-
Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html"
09/06/2015 08:16:14PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the
hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige.
I've read your question and am ready to assist you."
09/06/2015 08:16:59PM Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if
the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be
glad to check on this for you."
09/06/2015 08:17:00PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M."
09/06/2015 08:17:45PM Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z
laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and
5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't
say!"
09/06/2015 08:18:04PM Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:"
09/06/2015 08:18:05PM Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/
ConfigureView?
storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&catEntryId=998656&quantity=1&color=Natural
+silver"
09/06/2015 08:18:42PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me
go and check it."
09/06/2015 08:20:08PM Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options
for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!

802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price
802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00
Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00"
09/06/2015 08:21:45PM Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience."
09/06/2015 08:23:06PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?"
09/06/2015 08:23:59PM Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and
Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R)
[1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz."
09/06/2015 08:24:38PM Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the
unit but not in the shipping."
09/06/2015 08:25:37PM Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though,
it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your
concern."
09/06/2015 08:25:49PM Agent (Paige M): "Ive checked all of my
resources and I'm still unable to validate this."
09/06/2015 08:25:54PM Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP
expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that
you have. Their hours of operation a 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain,
Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM €“ 10PM MT."
09/06/2015 08:26:21PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4
GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have
NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are
you sure about those specs? Th"
&nbsp ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well.
09/06/2015 08:27:27PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)"
09/06/2015 08:28:40PM Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you
can try calling."
09/06/2015 08:29:16PM Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions
if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still."
09/06/2015 08:29:31PM Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can
assist you with today?"
09/06/2015 08:30:29PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige
This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is
SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question.
The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I
can speak with? This is not a dif"
&nbsp ficult question.
09/06/2015 08:32:30PM Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?"
09/06/2015 08:33:15PM Ewald Bohm: "?"
09/06/2015 08:33:31PM Agent (Vann): "Hi!"
09/06/2015 08:35:14PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Thank you for trying to help me.
I am asking a simple question.
Do you need me to repeat the question?"
09/06/2015 08:36:41PM Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?"
09/06/2015 08:36:47PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here."
09/06/2015 08:36:53PM Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait."
09/06/2015 08:37:02PM Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session
with Paige."
09/06/2015 08:40:18PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat
anything.
Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether
the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz
bands.
Also, since"
&nbsp that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the
answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is
correct, or not.
Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic
(and these are EXTREMELY BASIC
&nbsp questions) computer questions.
09/06/2015 08:41:03PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have
questions, Ewald."
09/06/2015 08:41:05PM Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the
information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these
questions."
09/06/2015 08:41:47PM Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know
that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just
get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)."
09/06/2015 08:41:54PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website
product information is very limited."
09/06/2015 08:43:31PM Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and
that is for free."
09/06/2015 08:44:03PM Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the
product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip
code and state."
09/06/2015 08:45:12PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item
will be shipped and that the shipping is free.
Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available
for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both."
09/06/2015 08:45:30PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on
that."
09/06/2015 08:46:04PM Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources
are very limited to answer your question."
09/06/2015 08:46:16PM Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent
referred you to our product expert."
09/06/2015 08:46:25PM Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and
I will this to you."
09/06/2015 08:46:28PM Agent (Vann): "*answer."
09/06/2015 08:46:35PM Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes
of your time."
09/06/2015 08:46:41PM Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here."
09/06/2015 08:47:43PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald,"
09/06/2015 08:47:46PM Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that."
09/06/2015 08:48:10PM Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait."
09/06/2015 08:49:00PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the
decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/
n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card."
09/06/2015 08:49:58PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann"
09/06/2015 08:50:03PM Agent (Vann): "I found more information here."
09/06/2015 08:52:01PM Ewald Bohm: "oooPS.
Hi VAnn,
I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that
out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only
the "ac" card is 5GHz?"
09/06/2015 08:52:54PM Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that."
09/06/2015 08:53:17PM Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this
is based on something that I am not sure of."
09/06/2015 08:54:33PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi).
Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or
"ac" is also 5GHz."
09/06/2015 08:57:20PM Agent (Vann): "Thanks!"
09/06/2015 08:57:32PM Agent (Vann): "Let me check that."
09/06/2015 08:59:32PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can
do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at
a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question.
My question is whether th"
&nbsp e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz
or both.
Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually
an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer.
In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on
&nbsp the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask!
09/06/2015 09:00:18PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming
from."
09/06/2015 09:00:53PM Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the
marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent
description of each wi-fi options."
09/06/2015 09:04:48PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I
found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve
long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore,
I do appreciate that you are in"
&nbsp the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that.
I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this
laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that
"n" can be either (just not at the same time), w
&nbsp hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both
at the same time).
So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to
figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz
bands.
09/06/2015 09:04:55PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood
in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5
Ghz."
09/06/2015 09:05:26PM Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11
ac 2x2 ."
09/06/2015 09:05:35PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out
which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band."
09/06/2015 09:05:50PM Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz."
09/06/2015 09:06:10PM Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:06:18PM Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router
has a dual band?"
09/06/2015 09:08:41PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac"
card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM
whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands.
(I know that the "n" can make use"
&nbsp of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not
mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously).
But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and
"n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o
&nbsp nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an
AC1750.
09/06/2015 09:14:10PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas
(802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4
does not tell me what the bands are."
09/06/2015 09:17:33PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you
waiting."
09/06/2015 09:17:40PM Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..."
09/06/2015 09:18:06PM Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it
would be better you consult our product expert."
09/06/2015 09:18:23PM Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a
1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/"
09/06/2015 09:19:36PM Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated)
transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself
can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it
is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is
indicating the de"
&nbsp dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:20:46PM Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research
on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work."
09/06/2015 09:21:36PM Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http://
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...t-gen-80211ac-
wifi-for-dummies.pdf"
09/06/2015 09:21:58PM Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two
dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive.
But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that
they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT
using 2 d"
&nbsp ifferent frequencies.
09/06/2015 09:22:07PM Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..."
09/06/2015 09:22:53PM Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..."
09/06/2015 09:24:08PM Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums."
09/06/2015 09:24:09PM Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/
Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to-
find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523"
09/06/2015 09:24:31PM Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed
as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n."
09/06/2015 09:25:00PM Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10
of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim):
"In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan
-
dards, the number of send and receive antennas and
stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o"
&nbsp ne antenna
supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup
-
porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares
the performance of antenna and stream configurations
in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards"
09/06/2015 09:25:31PM Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of
antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency."
09/06/2015 09:26:15PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this
to our product expert and I shall email you the answer."
09/06/2015 09:26:38PM Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our
time and this is something that I cannot confirm."
09/06/2015 09:26:44PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn,
An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band.
That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the
question if the spec simply said what it should say!"
09/06/2015 09:26:48PM Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want
to get the answer of this."
09/06/2015 09:28:23PM Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert
with your questions."
09/06/2015 09:28:24PM Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In
the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first
line of page 11:
"Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and
5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the"
&nbsp 2.4 GHz frequency"
09/06/2015 09:28:35PM Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions
now so I can forward this now."
09/06/2015 09:28:54PM Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within
24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:29:09PM Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says
what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or
2.4GHz or both."
09/06/2015 09:29:14PM Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic
technical knowledge, Ewald."
09/06/2015 09:29:23PM Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..."
09/06/2015 09:30:12PM Agent (Vann): "Sure."
09/06/2015 09:32:36PM Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling
in my head."
09/06/2015 09:33:10PM Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three
available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/
Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz,
5GHz, or both.
I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o"
&nbsp r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that
the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both
(possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me
NOTHING about the frequency band!
In addition,
&nbsp I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per
channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2
dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive
antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH
&nbsp ING about the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:34:06PM Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what
you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:34:31PM Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to
answer by myself."
09/06/2015 09:34:57PM Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power
and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix
up in my head."
09/06/2015 09:35:06PM Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:36:01PM Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann,
I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will
await the response from your technical expert.
I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to
know what frequency the WiFi card operates in"
&nbsp - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1
or 2x2, etc.
I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the
FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web-
marketing team to let them know the
&nbsp ir web pages are missing critical information).
09/06/2015 09:36:55PM Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common
questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask
this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are."
09/06/2015 09:37:48PM Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer
immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this
number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer
any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation a 7:00
AM -"
&nbsp 10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM €“
10PM MT.
09/06/2015 09:38:34PM Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any
answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP
source."
09/06/2015 09:38:48PM Agent (Vann): "I only got the information
provided earlier from my research."
09/06/2015 09:39:15PM Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday
(and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so
I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:39:29PM Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer
to this address ."
09/06/2015 09:40:11PM Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I
am checking earlier with the upper management what services or
departments will be open tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:40:20PM Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email
within 24-48hrs."
09/06/2015 09:42:03PM Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I
just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering
the laptop on the web. I will await your email."
09/06/2015 09:42:16PM Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand."
09/06/2015 09:42:26PM Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make
things certain in your purchase."
09/06/2015 09:42:41PM Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further
assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?"
09/06/2015 09:43:17PM Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will
await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then
I will also try to call them."
09/06/2015 09:43:46PM Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end
this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns."
09/06/2015 09:43:52PM Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India,
so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!"
09/06/2015 09:43:53PM Ewald Bohm: "Ciao,"
09/06/2015 09:44:07PM Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further
research on this on my own to learn from it."
09/06/2015 09:44:14PM Agent (Vann): "You too."
09/06/2015 09:44:19PM Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today."
09/06/2015 09:44:25PM Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat
experienced."
09/06/2015 09:44:28PM Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us
with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our
products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific,
Monday- Sunday."
09/06/2015 09:44:32PM Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We
appreciate your business."
09/06/2015 09:44:34PM Session Ended
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