On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 2:45:49 PM UTC-4, rdoc wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 9:06:42 PM UTC-4, rdoc wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
newsp.x4ewyph36w0fur@deans-air...

Here is the new one:
http://www.wellmate.com/en-US/product/residential-products/hydro-pneumatic-air-water-tanks/hp-quick-connect-series/


The flow issue is, I believe, related to the 3/8" orifice in the
device
inserted in the pump supply line in front of the tank (that 3/8 figure
is
based on what the installer said was in it). I used to run this small
house
off a 1 1/4" line into the tank and reduced it to 3/4 after. The
installer
reduced it to 1" before the device and then 1" again between the
device
and
the tank. It seems to me that a system is only as strong as it's
smallest
diameter supply and running a home on 3/8" is doomed... then add
deposits
and such and the flow is brought to it's knees.

That is the crux of my questions... what the heck is this thing and is
it
serviceable and what are the ramifications of using a larger one
(providing
that the installer was not as wrong about that availability as he was
about
so much else)?

I do not have a web page to post photos on.

Also, upon looking it over better, it really is not much longer each
way
than a 1" tee... the 1" black hose make it look bigger. I see no
markings on
it other than an arrow in the dirction of the air flow.


thanks for reading and replying.

I haven't asked a silly question for at least a couple minutes now.
It isn't the microionizer shown in the picture of the tank by chance?
http://tinyurl.com/ntjaren




No, it doesn't look like that, but... that link that you show, although
not
looking the same, either... makes me wonder if there is another style of
these beyond these two. When I looked at that, maybe I dismissed the
concept
because of the difference in appearance.


The "micronizer" is shown in the pic of the tank you supplied.
It's not exactly the same as the one Dean found, but it performs
the same function, which is to constantly inject a small, adjustable
amount of air whenever the pump is running. The air volume control
that is inside the tank apparently then maintains the correct air
volume by venting the excess. I've never seen a setup like that.

If that micronizer gets gunked up, then per the diagram of the tank
that you supplied, it would only affect how fast water gets pumped
into the tank and/or the air volume in the tank, but your complaint
is flow rate. So, some questions?

Is the tank water logged, or behaving OK with respect to drawdown?

Is the flow rate OK when the tank is full, then becomes
a problem when the pump runs?

If the flow rate is a problem with normal air in the tank and
before the pump kicks on, then I don't see how it can be caused
by the mircronizer because it's not in the flow path at that
point. Assuming of course it's installed like the diagram that
you provided from Wellmate.

Also, I'm curious what the issue is with your bad water and
a bladder type tank. I would assume the bladders are made of
a vinyl or similar type material that would be impervious to
acidic water, etc. so I'm curious what happens to bladders?


As I understand it from those around with horror stories about bladder
tanks... the deposits on the bladder compromise it and they fail but more
importantly, our water corrodes and rusts heavy galvanized tanks in as
little as two years causing leaks with the cheapo tin of bladder tanks
sometimes seeing half that long. If you've ever walked into your basement to
find that your holding tank has blown a hole and your pump just keeps
pumping it up again and again, it's something you don't ever want to risk
experiencing again.

There are lots of bladder tanks available that are composite.
If that water can make a bladder fail, it must have some
interesting stuff in it. It's plastic and seems to me plastic
hold up pretty well to most things, even acid.



When the installer first put the tank in, he did not install the
microionizer and all was fine until the tank waterlogged... great flow and
pressure. As I now understand things according to a local with some good
experience with this thing, the ionizer was a required element to the self
adjusting air volume control. He tried to cheap out on me. It was at the
very moment that he installed the ionizer on the service call that the flow
issues began and have only worsened since then. This installer and I have
gone round and round ever since.

What it appears, according to the local who helped identify the gizmo, is
that he didn't want to by the new one at $120 and so used one from a hot tub
or jacuzzi deal and, as I'm told, the angle is not adjustable and so his
original statement (that he now denies) about it being about 3/8 inch
diameter inside is probably accurate. 3/8" is woefully small for a primary
supply for a home when you are trying to pump a 40 gallon tank at the same
time as needing to maintain the concurrent demand of say, a toilet, a
washing machine and a dishwasher when the whole family is beating the system
up at once. At times, if one flushes while filling the bathtub, it all comes
to a halt. These state occurred instantly when he installed this thing.

As I understand it, those suggesting micrionizer are right on except that it
also has a thing called a vacuum break with it. I see well-mate branded ones
on line for about half of what he would have paid at the local
distributor... if I can figure out how to set it up, I may pick one up.
Until this, I took care of my water supply myself and got by fine... this is
what I get for paying money for someone else to do it.


thanks for the replies.

I asked before if the flow rate problem was also when the tank was
full or if it only happens when the tank draws down and the pump kicks on.
If it's only when it draws down, then I'd agree it's the micronizer.
If it's all the time, then I don't see how it can be the mircronizer,
because it's between the well and pump.