On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:05:38 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:21:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:40:08 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:05:10 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:09:57 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:21:07 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip


While statistically you may be correct, I'm not that sure about the
relationship between gun availability and crime. For example, I read
that while criminals in England rarely used firearms in, say the '50's
- the Great Train Robbers were armed with clubs - while today, even
with more stringent firearm laws in the country, armed criminals are
more common. to the extent that arming the police seems to becoming a
more popular idea.

Yeah, they're having a hell of a wave of murders with guns in the UK.
Their rate is all the way up to 0.26/100,000. The rate for the US is
40 times higher.

They're just going to hell in a handbasket...

The point, or course, was that even with stringent gun laws the number
of armed criminals in the British Isles is increasing. What was it in
England, Scotland and Wales, say 20 - 30 years ago compared to the
present?

It's meaningless. When the numbers are so vanishingly small, even a
slight perturbation in the numbers causes a disproportionate change in
the percentages.


And, of course, in Northern Ireland where possession of a firearm
likely ensured a very unpleasant visit to the police station, at a
minimum, gun crimes were sky high for a while :-)

But as I previously mentioned, they banned alcoholic beverages in the
U.S. and that automatically stopped drinking in the entire country.
Right?

There's no connection.


I see...

Banning alcohol was thought to decrease the evils of that "Demon Rum"
and banning firearms is expected to decrease the evils of those
terribly dangerous guns.



The first didn't work and in fact is often claimed to be a major
reason that the "Mafia" grew from a little neighborhood protection
racket to a major factor in crime, but the second will be just so
effective, just like banning narcotic drugs has eliminated "dope
fiends" and outlawing cocaine had eliminated the use there of.

It's a fairly foolish comparison. People wanted to drink. It's not
true that many people want to shoot and kill each other.

Note what's happened in the UK and Australia when some or most types
of guns were banned.


Prostitution and gambling has been banned for years and years, so
obviously there are no hookers walking the streets and "the numbers"
were a figment of someone's imagination.

People like to ****. Far fewer want to kill.


Wake up and smell the flowers Ed. Banning something doesn't stop the
use of that thing. It just increases the cost.

It's a mixed bag, John. Some work, some don't. The DDT ban was very
effective. It's pretty hard to buy asbestos insulation these days.
And you don't see many stoles and jackets made of endangered species
any more.

You have to be a little more thoughtful and careful about these
absolute pronouncements. There are LOTS of bans that have succeeded.


Or did you think that all the evil doers running about and shooting
each other are using legally purchased guns and that all, each and
every one of them, has a State issued concealed carry permit?

Virtually ALL GUNS WERE PURCHASED LEGALLY. That's a key issue that gun
nutz refuse to address.

Exactly what I have been saying. Individuals who commit the majority
of the gun crimes do it with what might be termed "banned guns".

What guns are banned? They aren't banned. Any criminal can buy one.
Our gun laws are a joke.


And your argument apparently is that banning guns will reduce firearm
crimes

No, that's not my argument. I haven't made any arguments about what
should be done, or what the consequences would be. You're just making
it up in your own head.


Well, Ed, it doesn't seem to have.

Next, I assume, you will argue that "after all, if guns are banned
there won't be any here to buy", to which I will argue that "as cocoa
plants don't grow in the U.S. obviously cocaine is unobtainable here."

No, I wouldn't argue that. Only your strawman would argue that.

--
Ed Huntress