On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:19:42 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 10:03:05 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2015 05:38:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

I just came across thiis post. Posted and Mailed because I'm not sure
you would see my post if I don't email.

I snipped nothing from your post.

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:39:53 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 15:35:41 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:27:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Maybe go visit the hotel where Elian Gonzalez
works, since we sent him back?

We? Got a mouse in your pocket

It was the you libs that took him at gun point

There would have been no guns involved if they had obeyed the law. If
someone were disobeying a court decision you liked, I'm sure you would
want it enforced, even if guns were needed. (and the picture showed his
finger off trigger, as procedure dictates in such a situation. )

and deported him, a
child at the time. (Clinton & Janet Reno)

And they did the right thing.

His mother had equal rights to him when she was alive, although I don't
think you'd like it if your ex-wife took your only kid to a foreign
country without asking you.

But once she was dead, his father's rights way trumped his uncle's or
aunt's and any political gain anyone foresaw by continuing his
kidnapping from his father.

You make it sound like Cuba is France.

NO I DIDN'T.

I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHIHG ABOUT CUBA

Well, maybe you should.

But I didn't. So why did you say I did?

That would seem to be a key part of
the equation as to what's right.

No, it's not.

and DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

No response to this? No apology? That's what made me post, your
putting words in my mouth..


Is that how you try to win arguments?

It's not.

It doesn't matter. The boys father lived there.

Those supporting
allowing the grandparents to keep the child here, in the land of the
free, know the history of the brutal Castro govt.

They were't brutal to his father.

Interesting argument. Following that logic, Nazi Gemany wasn't so bad
because Hitler's govt wasn't brutal to all people, just some of them.

Apparently you're not aware of the widely held belief that anyone who
has to bring up nazis in an argument loses the argument. Cuba under
Castro was nothing like hitler's rule. If you don't know the
difference, it's your fault.


Suppose in a similar
circumstance a child today made it to South Korea or the USA, with
their mother dying trying to get to freedom, was now with
their grandparents and a father in North Korea wanted them back? What
would you do? Now, I'm not saying Cuba is as bad as NK, but if you
were a Cuban living in Miami, that had all your property taken by
Castro, relatives shot, had to flee for your life, etc, you might think so.

Now you want me to put myself in the shoes of his family in Miami or a
similar family in SK. You're changing the topic.

Why not? That would seem to be the essence of the argument.

No, it's not. The feelings of his Miami family are not what decides
who gets custody. Parents' custody rights far exceed uncles' and
aunts'


I never criticized
them for wanting to keep the kid. What I said was that they didn't obey
the law and Janet Reno did the right thing. And she did.

And if you were in his father's shoes, you'd agree with me.

But if somehow the decision had been for him to stay in the US but his
father was taking him back to Cuba, then just like I said above, you'd
want the police to enforce the court's decision, even if it mean using
guns.

For you it depends on whose ox is being gored.


If people in the US were actually pro-Elian instead of just being
anti-Communists, someone would have suggested and the Congress could
easily have given him citizenship.

Which would have settled or determined what exactly? The issue
was never citizenship.

It was never citizenship. Not a word was ever said by anyone about
citizenship The issue was residency.

Private bills that give citizenship
to individuals are not unusual in Congress. Then he could go back to
Cuba with his father and any time after he was 18, he could travel to
any other country, not just the US, and assert his American citizenship
and move here.

Uh, no. Cubans aren't free to travel

Not to travel to the US, but they are free to travel to some countries.

and immigrate to the USA.

I said to go to any other country ** and assert his USA citizenship,
and go from the other country to the US.

** I'm not sure why I put "just" in the next phrase. It doesn't make
sense with "other", and I didnt' use the word in the other post in this
thread

He could row out on boat and he woudln't have had to
get to the US with dry feet. If any boat from any country other than
Cuba, Russia, and maybe Venezuela picked him up, he could assert his US
citizenship and come to the US. If the US Coast Guard or border patrol
or whatever found him, they would take him straight to Florida and he'd
be a citizen here. But he can't do any of that.

I guess no one thought of that at the time, because they didn't
envision the need for a young kid swimming or row boating to freedom,
with all the lifethreatening possibilities, when he
was *already* here.

That he was here meant nothing.

If you had some crazy views or lived in a place other people didn't
like, and your ex-wife's brothers and sisters tried to take your son
away from you, you'd change your mind quick.

And poor people were probably better off in Cuba since Castro, free
medical care, free education including college if they did well before
that. I didnt' bring that up before because you'll probably call me
a Communist for refuting your false implication that Cuba is brutal to
everyone.

But other than his Miami family in the US, no one gave a darn about him.

Clause in wrong place, should have been
But, in the US, other than his Miami family no one gave a darn about
him.

It was all politics.

According to you of course.

And what you said is according to you.