On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:38:34 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

====snip===


There is no regeneration as with battery electric cars

I made no reference to KERS until the paragraph below.


I'm not sure why a common electric motor is being used when each
wheel can have its own built in motor fed from a sophisticated power
management controller with KERS and a modest capacity rechargable
battery to improve stop start urban journey fuel economy. There's no
need for energy inefficient mechanical drive trains with electric
propulsion.

You should have noticed that I alluded to the modest sized
rechargable mentioned by Honda which is used to flatten the peak
demand on the fuel cell which nicely lends itself to this function.
Admittedly, the gains seen in F1 aren't going to be as great since
normal driving doesn't routinely involve rapid decelerations from
200mph down to 50 or 60mph but it can help mitigate braking energy
losses in stop start traffic as well as improve energy consumption
when travelling a hilly route involving uphill ascent and downhill
descent.


Motor in wheel technology is totally stupid.
The ideal car wheel/suspension would be massless, heavier wheels just make
cars uncontrollable and uncomfortable.

I'm totally aware of the detractions of "Unsprung mass" but a modern
pancake electric motor is surprisingly light for its power output and
a lot of the structural mass of the wheel can form the major
components of the motor. Properly integrated, a 'Power Wheel' need not
have to weigh any more than a cheap pressed steel wheel in common use
today.

When the over-riding need is for efficiency rather than sports car
type performance, the slight trade off in handling and ride comfort is
well worth accepting.

The motor is subjected to all the bumps and jars and also to water and salt.

As is the case for brake lines and calipers and disks. A program of
R&D will nicely take care of those issues, including the unsprung mass
issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight


The motors used are not "common electric motors" either.
They already have a sophisticated control system.

That is a 'given' but a seperate motor in each wheel eliminates the
mass associated with CV joints in the mechanical drive train and
reduces the 'gearbox' to a matter of electrical contactors and
switchmode voltage control from the controller unit. No space
consuming prop shafts and bulky differential transfer boxes and you
get the benefit of "All Wheel Drive" (AWD). A common[1] motor is just
an intermediate 'proof of concept' proving technology at the moment.


Transporting/storing hydrogen presents almost insurmountable probelms.
And on site generation has problems of its own.
Any cars would likel be more expensive with poorer performance than current
battery electric cars

That's total and utter bollicks.

There is no prospectof regeneration with a hydrogen car.

I assume you're referring to KERS. Again, you're only right in that
there currently isn't an effective way to turn the electrical energy
back into hydrogen fuel but totally wrong in thinking that KERS can't
be used when Honda have provided a modest capacity rechargable battery
to smooth out the demand peaks on the fuel cell which can do double
duty for KERS.


For transport, hydrogen is a total non starter.

In the context of today's antique nuclear power generation capacity,
that's largely true right now but it won't be too long before the cost
of such convenience fuels overtakes that of a hydrogen fuel generated
by modern power stations in a properly thought out system of the
future.

Don't diss Honda's efforts out of hand just because there are still
quite a few (not insurmountable) problems to be addressed before it
makes sound economic and good 'eco' sense. The lessons being learned
by such a project will prove valuable to the future of personalised
road transport in a world without cheap liquid fuels.

Even if, in the end, it just proves that the practicality of such a
solution fails to live up to its promise, it will still have proved
its worth in providing data that will assist alternative developments.

[1] When I used the phrase "Common Motor", I was referring to the use
of a single high power high efficiency motor as being a common source
of the mechanical power via a conventional transmission system rather
than as a derogatory "common as muck" term as I'm sure most others in
this discussion thread don't need telling.
--
Regards, J B Good