On 2/11/2014 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:06:22 PM UTC-5, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:51:20 PM UTC-6, Bob_Villa wrote:

You repeat yourself multiple times in this one post...you have to be desperate!

You need to sit down and relax...take a few breaths!

"Why Whole Building Surge Protectors Don't Work"
http://www.us-tech.com/RelId/1082596...27t_Work.h tm

I hope you realize that both this source and the one you cited in
your previous posts come from the same source and that source apparently
owns a business that sells alternative forms of surge supprssors. What
his company sells is different than either the common plug-ins that
you acknowledge work, or the MOV approach that is used in whole house
surge protectors. It's rather odd that you'd bring up a guy who's in
the business of selling expensive surge protector strips, $160, when
you previously made the comment about me sounding like I was giving
a sales job.

I agree. They are both sales propaganda for Zero Surge.


In the reference above, he cites EPRI (Electric Power Research Institute)
that did a "System Compatibility Research Project". That report is
available:

http://www.epri.com/search/Pages/res...arch%20Project

The research and report covered TOV (Temporary Over Voltage) which is
totally different from surge protection. It's the type of fault that
the IEEE discussed and made clear surge protectors are not designed to
handle. Nor have they ever claimed to handle such events. TOV are
not surges, but rather long duration overvoltages
from crossed lines, bad neutrals, regulation fault on the power grid,
etc. I explained that to you several posts ago, where you misapplied
what the IEEE guide actually says.

I didn't look up the article. Interesting. I have seen other Zero Surge
pieces that seriously distort reality.

Like for instance the other article. Says UL 1449 is for "older shunt
mode technology" (MOVs, which Zero Surge does not use). And their
"filter technology is covered under UL 1283 'Electromagnetic
Interference Filters.' " UL1283 is for noise filters, not surge
protectors.


The authors of the above article make that clear as well. Look at
what they say at the beginning of section 6. They aren't saying
that a whole house unit won't work and a plug-in will, they are
saying that all MOV based surge protectors will fail if subjected
to TOV. No one disputes that, but it says nothing about whole
house surge protectors being ineffective against *surges*, not TOV.

I also don't buy Hartford's claim that 80% of surges that you need
to be concerned about come from within the house.

I agree it is BS, and another red flag on the author. Perhaps BobV could
come up with a creditable source that says significant surges are
generated inside the house. BobV appears to believe it.

He cites the
example of a coffee pot turning on and off and supposedly generating
destructive surges. If that were the case, there would be millions
of appliances failing every day, everywhere. The fact that they
are not clearly suggests he's wrong. He cites that coffee
pot as the threat to be more concerned about than surges coming
in on the power line from lightning? I've had one appliance fail
in decades and that was right after a lightning storm and it was
a Tivo connected to a phone line, with no surge protector. If
coffee pots are causing destructive surges, where is the evidence?

Lastly, he takes some comments made in that study about issues
with coordinating multiple surge protectors, ie a panel one, followed
by point-of-use and how they may not always perform as expected.
I think a large problem there is that the authors of that paper
are focused on TOV, more than on surges. I'd like to see someone
ask Hartford, if lightning hit a utility pole outside his house
and a 4K volt, 5K amp surge came down the service cable, would
he rather have most of it dealt with by a surge protector at the
panel, or rely on a small one after the destructive surge was
across the house and at the appliance?

I'd also point out that the authors of the EPRI report acknowledge
the help or Francois Martzloff, who also contributed to and is cited
in the IEEE surge protection guide that I referred you to earlier.

He was the surge expert at the NIST and wrote the NIST surge guide:
http://www.eeel.nist.gov/817/pubs/sp...%20happen!.pdf

It is another source that says service panel protectors are effective
(but not necessarily complete protection for equipment with both power
and signal connections).